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Old 12-15-2013, 01:31 PM
 
8,483 posts, read 6,918,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Here is where I disagree slightly: it is the government in bed with corporations that has created the system we have today. It is the fact that you can be in Washington for 50 years in the legislature, taking money every year from different donors, the highest bidder and still appear to stand for something. It is the fact that corporations are persons and as persons they can contribute as much money to an election as they want. It is the fact that lobbying-for-money is legal and on top of that is a well paid profession that seems to attracts all the disgusting, spineless and slimy creatures. When all of the above come together in one place (at any level, local, state or federal), you get what you get. A mass of indentured servants who CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY FOR A VOICE in the legislature. More than that, they are too busy being squeezed for every penny and worked to death at the same time to care. What's the last thing you need to make this system complete? Knowing when there is dissent so you can prevent it. How do you get that? Invasive police apparatus....
Govt et al is the entire top level corporate structure. It has 2 sides. Municipal corps and Publicly traded corps (not excluding public corps, NGO's etc..., they too are corps.)
Lobbying, and revolving doors is far less of an issue. It is all corporate, just different types. They are integrated.
The publicly traded corps have massive shares controlled by the municipal corps through investment funds. This is plain to see from accounting records, just massively spread out. Municipal corps own transnationals and invest in them. The municipals profit when they offshore jobs to China. They make more this way than through taxes. That is why they did it. They invest and keep the massive returns through accounting rules.

The municipals are the larger corporate structure, they do the heavy lifting. They operate in commerce just like all the other corps they just get to have special privileges. They get to regulate and be above those regs and taxes they put on others. They also get special BK and other creative accounting privileges. The transnationals don't even get those kind of privileges.

Revealed - the capitalist network that runs the world ...

This handful of companies that "rule" the world, like JPM and GS. Go see who those institutional investors are. How do you think 4 banks ended up with over 233 (notional) trillion in derivatives?

Last edited by CDusr; 12-15-2013 at 01:42 PM..
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:40 PM
 
8,483 posts, read 6,918,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
There will always be money. It may not be the money we use today but there will always be money, defined as an accepted standard for goods and services. Since the inception of coinage no society has returned to barter except in emergencies, and those incidents have been short-lived.
All that is needed is an agreement of exchange. Essentially people are exchanging energy that is converted into some form. The current system takes a representation of people's value/energy and controls it. This is limiting, it also gives the controller of this representation serious advantage.

All "money" is really backed by people. That is where that good faith and credit is derived. They are the alpha and omega in an economic system.

Money is not needed. I think eventually it will disappear. Money Mechanics today do not work the way most even think they do. There are other forms of exchanging other than barter also.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:59 PM
 
40 posts, read 81,094 times
Reputation: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
We have had our disagreements here in the forum. However, I want all of you to know that even though we go back and forth here, I value a lot of your opinions and advice and insights. Even when we argue, I like most of you - I just hate the ragging on this or that group of people - would much more like to figure out how to get people to a better place instead of just pointing out that they are in a bad place now (I suppose part of fixing the problem is realizing that there is a problem but I think we all agree we have problems...).

In any case, I am curious what you all think about the following: when I lived in Florida, I lived in an unincorporated area where most of the lots were 1.5-2 acres. In my opinion, these lots could have provided most of the stuff a family would need in terms of veggies and fruits (at least tropical fruits but that would be enough), esp. given Florida's long growing season. On 2 acres one could also have a goat or two and chickens. Being Florida with a lot of sun, you would think everyone would have been on solar. Water was easy to come by, wells were pretty shallow. All in all, the whole population of that unincorporated town could have fed itself and produced all the energy they needed. Heck, the unincorporated area housed thousands of families and if they all produced and the land was used efficiently, they could have fed another town or two, besides themselves

Why didn't they? Instead, a lot of them chose crappy jobs in town, miserable existence working for someone else, driving 30-40 miles a day to get to the work site and then back etc. They relinquished all control of their food and energy supply to someone else. Why?

Same there where I am now. My neighbor to the left has 75 acres and all they have is 2 pet horses and a pet donkey. They do not hunt the deer on their land (it is legal), they don't grow veggies, no solar (I am in SW USA so lots of sun), no fruit trees, no nothin'. Many other neighbors around with parcels large and small and I think maybe 2% of the whole population of 3,000 has a veggie garden. If people have anything it may be goats but they are raised for shows or commercially and if a ranch is big they have cattle but a lot of them do it for tax exemptions and sometimes as a commercial outfit but they do not grow gardens, have no solar etc.

Again, why not?

Furthermore, is there a business model that would allow a person to help people setting all the self-sufficient stuff up, make a living doing that (not after getting rich, just make a living and help people)? When I lived in FL, I contemplated renting out people's backyards to plant veggies and fruits on them and pay them with the portion of the bounty. Opinions?

Thanks!
I like your attitude. My wife and I feel the same way and have for a long time. People make all kinds of excuses for not getting off their lazy behinds and living life full of purpose other than self benefit. The food we buy from stores is non-nutritious poison. Most Farmer's Markets are outrageous because they try to make a living out of selling produce. But there are indeed people out there that live to take care of themselves rather than look for self sufficient ways to "get what they want". We can grow our own food CHEAP. We can raise livestock. We can catch rain and dig wells. We can use solar. We can design cheap homes built underground for the purpose of accommodating self sufficiency. This shines a whole new outlook on life. Because growing summer season becomes a time of hard work. Harvest is a time to reap what you have sown. And winter is a time of rest, spiritual reflect and rejuvenation. No corporate strings required. This puts money on the back burner. Because we save our seeds and everything else we need. Time goes slower. We show more patience. And we have more callouses to show for it. Not to mention all the virtues of not having Uncle Sam laying across my back 24/7. There should be more than enough room in our lives to put GOD on the pedestal of our existence.

We gave up our old life for all these things. And I will never go back. Society is founded upon deception and trickery to enrich the lives of the evildoers. TRUTH is looked down upon. While LIES are encouraged in every aspect of traditional life. Why do you think people worship Hollywood celebrities? They get paid to LIE.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:54 PM
 
1 posts, read 708 times
Reputation: 23
“A nation that destroys its soils destroys itself.” Franklin D. Roosevelt

This is the first time I write in this forum. I would like to make some contributions to the debate...

1st) I´m of the same point of view of people like Lordy. The world is changing, all the social structures (Education, work, politics, financial, etc) trying not to see it it´s simply madness. What worked for the last generations doesn´t work anymore, and the changes are speeding up.

2nd) It´s incredible how many post reflect ignorance about history (even recent history). No government last forever. In fact, anarchy, war, famine, disease are the normal state of humanity in history between very short periods of "peace" or "wealth".

3th The groceries, the energy, all that we consume in our actual world it´s possible thanks to the externalization of the costs. When you buy anything you are not paying the real cost. The 99% of it is paid by others (other countries, other people in our country, or the future generations). In a finite (closed system, the real world) it´t impossible to maintain it.

4th It´s false that you need a lot of work or resources for food sustenance, read about the work of Masanobu Fukuoka and his "natural farming". It´s a kind of "terraformation" that works in nearly any climate condition (even in african deserts), changing the spices and the time required (the more damaged the soil, the more time needed).


How to do Masanobu Fukuoka's natural farming. - YouTube


How To Grow Food Fast - " Fukuoka Garden " Fresh Food In 30 Days!!!!! - YouTube


I apologize myself for any grammatical error because english is not my mother language. Thank you very much.
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Old 01-13-2014, 01:22 PM
 
113 posts, read 152,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljoebay View Post
Most Farmer's Markets are outrageous because they try to make a living out of selling produce.

How dare they.
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Old 01-13-2014, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,331 posts, read 61,161,924 times
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It is very hard to compete with farm subsidies.

Earl Butz knew that.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,295,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoathere View Post
How dare they.
Still laughing!
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:42 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,482 posts, read 18,618,666 times
Reputation: 22375
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljoebay View Post
Most Farmer's Markets are outrageous because they try to make a living out of selling produce.
Man, that's the stuff heterodoxy is made of... trying to make a living outside the Collective Workhouse. Jackasses.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
7,092 posts, read 12,616,439 times
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Wonder if anyone has read Helen and Scott Nearings' book Living the Good Life? They left NYC in the midst of Great Depression to live independently on an old farm in Vermont--and later, in Maine.

Their book contains a blueprint to follow on how to do what they did--including building their home and outbuildings out of native stone found on their property.

They grew enough produce and developed a root cellar to get them through the winter from their garden.

Vegetarians, they did not keep or eat any animals.

It's a fascinating book--I recommend it to you.

They, the Nearings, were early pioneers in the "Back to the land" movement. And they had been city folks--but highly educated and big readers of "how-to" books and good neighbors who learned and shared with their neighbors...

Their main cash crops were maple sugar from their maple trees...and blueberries.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,331 posts, read 61,161,924 times
Reputation: 30256
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin View Post
Wonder if anyone has read Helen and Scott Nearings' book Living the Good Life? They left NYC in the midst of Great Depression to live independently on an old farm in Vermont--and later, in Maine.

Their book contains a blueprint to follow on how to do what they did--including building their home and outbuildings out of native stone found on their property.

They grew enough produce and developed a root cellar to get them through the winter from their garden.

Vegetarians, they did not keep or eat any animals.

It's a fascinating book--I recommend it to you.

They, the Nearings, were early pioneers in the "Back to the land" movement. And they had been city folks--but highly educated and big readers of "how-to" books and good neighbors who learned and shared with their neighbors...

Their main cash crops were maple sugar from their maple trees...and blueberries.
The independently wealthy; who hire farm-workers to work on their farms; who then watch out through the window and write articles about how great farm life is; and who then earn even more money from being authors. Might not be the best example to use here.





Their writings have inspired many.
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