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Think4Yourself, I wasn't referring to most rural communities, I was referring to mine where I have lived for more than a decade. It has a mostly self-sufficient economy with the resources required to go totally self-sufficient if that is ever required. Most raise at least some of their food. What I don't raise myself I buy directly from local farms, all of which are small. Jobs are local; too far to travel elsewhere for a job. This local economy has thrived for a couple hundred years. It is a major reason I chose to live here. Of course I know that places like this are few and far between.
Jetgraphics, permaculture does work well. I have used this method on a small scale for a few years. We may end up growing everything this way. I can confirm what the guy you linked to states about greater yields. It's true, at least in my case.
Look at the employment base in most small towns and you'll find most of them are either government workers or workers in primary industries which are heavily government subsidized in an attempt to boast the economy of what would other wise be third world conditions.
This statement shows, you have not been in many small towns. You do not know what makes them viable. In my state of Montana, we are the 4th largest state in the country, with less people than quite a few cities in the United States at under one million people in the entire state. Our biggest city, is about 100,000.
The unemployment rate for the state is 4.8%, and for Billings our largest city it is 3.6%. Then compare how high the unemployment rate is in the big city areas.
It seems the 3rd world conditions are in the major city areas, with slums, gangs, high crime rates, high murder rates, etc., not in the small cities, and towns of America.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy
I am not sure, maybe our wires are crossing but what I call "food" and what you call "food" may be different. A pound of grass fed and grass finished organic beef is 5-6 times the cost of your marbled and messed with unhealthy gunk mixed with enzymes that they call beef at Walmart. Try feeding a family of four ONLY organic food, from organic peanut butter (2-3 times more expensive than "conventional"), potatoes (2x more expensive), produce (2-3 times more expensive) etc. etc.
To say "food is cheap" in this country is a misstatement - what passes as food is, sure, but then the question is - what do you want to put into your body? Do you even care?
Food. Things I eat to exist that keep me moving and alive.
I didn't even know Walmart sold meat? I obviously don't go to them.
Of course, I don't buy into the organic scam. I get organic dairy because I know the farmer and other things local because I know the people. But the whole foods, etc scam is well known and I'm not that gullible.
But if you want to go down "what I eat is food, what you eat is processed junk" path and be an elitist snob and look down upon others and feel better about yourself, that is your choice. Living most of my life in rather liberal locations (Burlington VT, Madison, WI, Cambridge MA) those types about and are known for what they are (idiotic elitist a.zzholes that like to waste money for image purposes and to stoke their egos (while making whole foods and health stores bank)).
This statement shows, you have not been in many small towns. You do not know what makes them viable. In my state of Montana, we are the 4th largest state in the country, with less people than quite a few cities in the United States at under one million people in the entire state. Our biggest city, is about 100,000.
The unemployment rate for the state is 4.8%, and for Billings our largest city it is 3.6%. Then compare how high the unemployment rate is in the big city areas.
It seems the 3rd world conditions are in the major city areas, with slums, gangs, high crime rates, high murder rates, etc., not in the small cities, and towns of America.
I've spent plenty of time in Montana and I stand by my statement. Yes, rural areas economically survive due to big wealth transfers from urban areas and the exception is if there is mineral wealth. Also, yes, the smaller the town the more important government jobs (teachers, firemen, police, USDF, etc...) are because there are just a lot fewer options. Even when the business is a primary business usually that primary business (ag, forestry, even most mining) has to be heavily subsidized by the state in order to remain viable.
Look, I know this goes against the self image that so many people in rural areas hold but it is never the less an economic fact even if you don't like it.
Very true, we are programmed to want these things and want lots of them.
I don't believe (programming at work here?) that I could survive without the "outside world". Any crop failures mean shopping at the supermarket.
There are times when all crops fail. However what is far more likely is failure in a mono-crop system.
Of what I have seen, large commercial farms are mostly mono-crop. Small subsistence farms are not.
Quote:
... I for one certainly couldn't pay my (rural) property taxes without some income. I wonder how professional small/subsistence farmers deal with the rising property and/or small business taxes. Do they raise their crop prices extra before taxes are planned to go up?
Around here property taxes are a fairly tiny portion of expenses. We pay around $1.05 per acre.
I sell produce in a Farmer's Market, there are no taxes here to be a vendor in a market. Or even to sell to grocery stores or restaurants.
As you grow and hire employees; then you get hammered very hard with taxes. I have seen a few farms that did really well and they grew. But once they hired employees they were quickly broke.
Quote:
... I am on an 8-acre plot, mostly bog and forest and my prop taxes just went up about 50% this year. We could even sell the wood from our land and make about $200 a truck-full but without an ATV and other machinery it would take a very, very long time to organize that for sale, and 200 does not pay for a quarter of our monthly "cheap" grocery shopping. And farmers here say that real crops are *not* cheap. Well, even worse then. And conservation of energy and all that - energy output should equal or exceed input or not worth it.
Our son tried cutting/selling cord wood. The best we have seen is a four-man crew with $100k in equipment. Otherwise it is very difficult to break-even.
Quote:
... Also to mention that a piece broke off of our woodstove this season (backordered) and we have had to do without woodburning since November. We are now paying about $350/month to use the electric in our 825 sq ft house. I'm not sure theoretically being small farmer that I could raise the cost of my crop to cover that extra expense. No one answered the question of how subsistence farmers pay for health insurance! Government support, I guess?
An elderly neighbor came by this afternoon, so I asked him. He raised four children. For the most part his family has not had coverage. They pay cash.
Even though I am a US servicemember, my Dw and I have found that for our dental insurance, it is cheaper to pay cash then to pay the insurance premiums.
... Organic food (produce and meat) is more costly to raise and higher risk of failure and often lower production. The certified organic growers (certified by the fed) have much greater costs (app. fees, mountains of paperwork, and annoying inspections which often are more like harassment, and are always under the threat of shutdown for minor infractions, or even imagined ones, or outrageous fines that put them out of business) so they have to pass those costs onto consumers
For the last couple years, the Farm Bill pays for small farm Organic Certification fees and inspections.
I am not sure, maybe our wires are crossing but what I call "food" and what you call "food" may be different. A pound of grass fed and grass finished organic beef is 5-6 times the cost of your marbled and messed with unhealthy gunk mixed with enzymes that they call beef at Walmart. Try feeding a family of four ONLY organic food, from organic peanut butter (2-3 times more expensive than "conventional"), potatoes (2x more expensive), produce (2-3 times more expensive) etc. etc.
To say "food is cheap" in this country is a misstatement - what passes as food is, sure, but then the question is - what do you want to put into your body? Do you even care?
Food is cheap if you want junk food and a long list of health problems.
In my region local organic foods tend to run around 15% over conventional ag products.
Think4Yourself, I wasn't referring to most rural communities, I was referring to mine where I have lived for more than a decade. It has a mostly self-sufficient economy with the resources required to go totally self-sufficient if that is ever required. Most raise at least some of their food. What I don't raise myself I buy directly from local farms, all of which are small. Jobs are local; too far to travel elsewhere for a job. This local economy has thrived for a couple hundred years. It is a major reason I chose to live here. Of course I know that places like this are few and far between.
Yes, there are pockets of places where it works fine.
We settled here because there is a growing sub-culture here of off-grid self-sufficient farms.
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