Will We Survive If the SHTF??? (operated, barrel, price, electricity)
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... I've never seen a city that gets all its food from farms surrounding it. Most cities I'm aware of get their food from farms located several states away, is highly processed, and I've heard the figure that 10 fossil fuel calories are used for every calorie of food energy.
Sounds about right.
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... I do not watch television for several reasons, but one is due to the fact that I care not to buy a foreign product. I have largely disengaged from society and refuse to consume.
That is a smart way to 'protest', simply do not buy their junk.
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... I've not paid any income taxes in more than ten years. I have gone on what I call a sitzkrieg. Before my job went overseas, I had very little choice in the matter. I had to pay taxes or the federal, state, and or local government would have incarcerated me, stole my checkings/savings and or my house.
That is one way to skin the cat.
I took courses on income tax filing, offered by IRS auditors and learned to itemize. I have not paid into Income Taxes since 1983.
There are other ways also
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... The American government has run almost all our jobs overseas, they heavily tax us and the only way to get out of it is to go live in the woods, but this is also illegal because it's either private or "public" property. If I want to live on my own land and not work, I have to pay some form of tax or the government will steal it from me.
If I want to live on my own land and not work, I have to pay some form of tax or the government will steal it from me.
In the US, the majority of people are not allowed to own their own land, they simply rent it from the government. The founder's are probably rolling over in their graves thinking of this.
This is one of the reasons why so many family farms have turned into corporate farms.
IMHO, property ownership is a much larger problem than our healthcare system, immigration or education. It's unfortunate that so many people are blind to this.
In the US, the majority of people are not allowed to own their own land, they simply rent it from the government. The founder's are probably rolling over in their graves thinking of this.
This is one of the reasons why so many family farms have turned into corporate farms.
IMHO, property ownership is a much larger problem than our healthcare system, immigration or education. It's unfortunate that so many people are blind to this.
In the US, the majority of people are not allowed to own their own land, they simply rent it from the government. The founder's are probably rolling over in their graves thinking of this.
This is one of the reasons why so many family farms have turned into corporate farms.
IMHO, property ownership is a much larger problem than our healthcare system, immigration or education. It's unfortunate that so many people are blind to this.
This is one aspect of "owning one's land" that I've never been able to come to grips with. Nobody "owns" land in the US, except in a very few unincorporated areas or Alaska and perhaps some others that I'm not aware of. There is no private ownership. We rent our land from the government. Of course, it's better than the way it is done in some nations, but I can't consider it outright ownership. I own the clothing on my back--yes, I paid sales tax when I bought it, but after that, there is nobody demanding that I pay rent for my clothing every year. The same can be said for a few other things we really do "own." But land is not one of them.
Of course, the big argument is that we pay property taxes to keep the county going, the schools, fire, police, emergency medical, infrastructure, etc. Fine. Tabulate exactly what I use of that and charge me. I have no problem paying for services rendered. But when the taxes become an indistinct "black hole" wherein nobody is quite sure exactly where the money is going, the system will eventually, in 100% of the cases, be abused. People can't resist blank checks... especially when they don't have to actually work to earn it. And that certainly includes the runaway government.
We need some honest, good, fair accountants to start tabulating EVERYTHING the government (local, state, and national) spends our money on, scrutinize it, sort it out, and start charging folks exactly for their share of services rendered. The tax codes are exactly reversed from the way they should be in many cases. For instance, if you have 10 kids, you ought to be paying way MORE in taxes rather than less. Your family is using 10 times more resources than a single person or a couple. Neither should there be a "discount" for being married. And the property tax assessment is bass-akwards as well. It should be based differently than it is on assessment value.
This is one aspect of "owning one's land" that I've never been able to come to grips with. Nobody "owns" land in the US, except in a very few unincorporated areas or Alaska and perhaps some others that I'm not aware of. There is no private ownership. We rent our land from the government. Of course, it's better than the way it is done in some nations, but I can't consider it outright ownership. I own the clothing on my back--yes, I paid sales tax when I bought it, but after that, there is nobody demanding that I pay rent for my clothing every year. The same can be said for a few other things we really do "own." But land is not one of them.
Of course, the big argument is that we pay property taxes to keep the county going, the schools, fire, police, emergency medical, infrastructure, etc. Fine. Tabulate exactly what I use of that and charge me. I have no problem paying for services rendered. But when the taxes become an indistinct "black hole" wherein nobody is quite sure exactly where the money is going, the system will eventually, in 100% of the cases, be abused. People can't resist blank checks... especially when they don't have to actually work to earn it. And that certainly includes the runaway government.
Property taxes are the only taxes you pay year after year for the same exact thing.
But anyways, it is an issue of precision and reality. It is impossible to account for everything everyone does at the moment. However, with the advancement of surveillance and the fact that private corporations are in bed with the government and they already know when the majority of the population even takes a dump, the day when your wish may be fulfilled is near. I am not sure you will like that day and the days onwards though
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Originally Posted by ChrisC
We need some honest, good, fair accountants to start tabulating EVERYTHING the government (local, state, and national) spends our money on, scrutinize it, sort it out, and start charging folks exactly for their share of services rendered. The tax codes are exactly reversed from the way they should be in many cases.
No, all we need is a flat tax code. It would be 10 pages long, everyone would be paying the same taxes. No taxes to stimulate causes or groups, no taxes to penalize causes or groups. However, that day will NEVER come. Sadly, places like Russia have passed us up on that....
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Originally Posted by ChrisC
For instance, if you have 10 kids, you ought to be paying way MORE in taxes rather than less. Your family is using 10 times more resources than a single person or a couple. Neither should there be a "discount" for being married.
That would be very un-Christian. Doesn't the Bible encourage us to be fruitful and multiply? Many people take that advice to heart.
That would be very un-Christian. Doesn't the Bible encourage us to be fruitful and multiply? Many people take that advice to heart.
Yeah, with us paying for it. Don't get me wrong, if someone wants 95 kids, fine. If (s)he pays for those 95 kids, great. But not on "the collective's" dime. Ideas such as "earned income credit" come tax time are atrocities that should be sent to live with the dodo bird.
As for the idea of a "flat tax" or "fair tax"... I'm on-board for either. The tax codes are pathetic--overly complex, overly punitive, overly "Santa Claus" (for some). My favorite tax idea is the "fair tax" proposal where it ends up being a consumption tax above a flat base. You consume more, you pay more. Exactly the way things should be in my little view of things--payment for services rendered. I know most folks would blow a head gasket if they saw that big increase in "sales tax." I wouldn't, so much, because I don't buy all that much in the first place, and I sure would love to flush yearly tax forms right down the toilet.
Yeah, with us paying for it. Don't get me wrong, if someone wants 95 kids, fine. If (s)he pays for those 95 kids, great. But not on "the collective's" dime. Ideas such as "earned income credit" come tax time are atrocities that should be sent to live with the dodo bird.
As for the idea of a "flat tax" or "fair tax"... I'm on-board for either. The tax codes are pathetic--overly complex, overly punitive, overly "Santa Claus" (for some). My favorite tax idea is the "fair tax" proposal where it ends up being a consumption tax above a flat base. You consume more, you pay more. Exactly the way things should be in my little view of things--payment for services rendered. I know most folks would blow a head gasket if they saw that big increase in "sales tax." I wouldn't, so much, because I don't buy all that much in the first place, and I sure would love to flush yearly tax forms right down the toilet.
Yes, a consumption based tax on top of flat tax is also a good idea. Ironically, using this kind of a tax structure the government would collect more tax (with a much smaller enforcement administration which would have less powers unlike today). However, it is obvious that the tax issue is not one of how much is collected only - it is also an issue directly connected to lobbying AND politics. Tax breaks, incentives and penalties are used to display that someone cares about an issue and is regulating it via tax codes. Pretty stupid, no?
Yes, a consumption based tax on top of flat tax is also a good idea. Ironically, using this kind of a tax structure the government would collect more tax (with a much smaller enforcement administration which would have less powers unlike today). However, it is obvious that the tax issue is not one of how much is collected only - it is also an issue directly connected to lobbying AND politics. Tax breaks, incentives and penalties are used to display that someone cares about an issue and is regulating it via tax codes. Pretty stupid, no?
Thanks for your perspective on the Yugoslavian issue, LL. And this post and ChrisC's on the tax front is spot on. Tax money is more about control and picking winners and losers than it is about revenue. Sickening. However, all this has strayed pretty far from the OP's question, wouldn't you agree?
I have lived in south Louisiana for close to 30 years, but I was raised in the Arklamiss area . . . the corner where Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi meet.
There is a big difference between the north and south parts of the state. I have always been amused to hear from people in New Orleans that the rest of the state couldn't exist without the culture and inspiration provided by New Orleans. I think this myopia exists between people of different backgrounds no matter where they live, be it city or country. In a SHTF scenario, I think this myopia would cause problems that would make cooperation a challenge. I believe it would cause major problems and lead to nasty conflicts.
Personally, I would rather be with people who think and who prefer to live as I do. I prep not only for myself, but for my family and friends. I would not survive a true SHTF situation. I need daily medication and would only live for about 2 weeks without it. If I find myself in a SHTF situation, I would want to be around people who would allow me to die as painlessly as possible. I would not want to be 'triaged' into an uncomfortable death.
As for those who say it can't happen. . . prior to Katrina, I heard repeatedly that the levees would never break. When my husband and I bought our first house (in Metairie, a suburb of New Orleans), we were told that buying flood insurance was a waste of money because the levees would never break. We were not in New Orleans for Katrina (thank God)- we had moved to the other side of the lake.
In my experience, people refuse to think about the worst that can happen. How many people in earthquake country carry earthquake insurance? I watched a special about this. Some people who live near the New Madrid fault were interviewed. One couple was wearing teeshirts that said 'Waiting for the next big one". Not only did they not have earthquake insurance, they had done nothing to prepare for a quick getaway should the fault should move again.
I think it is human nature to prefer to believe the worst will not happen to us, it will happen to the other guy.
As for those who say it can't happen. . . prior to Katrina, I heard repeatedly that the levees would never break. When my husband and I bought our first house (in Metairie, a suburb of New Orleans), we were told that buying flood insurance was a waste of money because the levees would never break.
Countrysue,
Thanks for mentioning that, because it serves to highlight something that's been bothering me for years now. In the aftermath of Hurricane Betsy, which hit New Orleans pretty much head-on in 1965, the levees were breached almost exactly like they were after Katrina (though not in the same exact places).
So, given the reality of that well-defined and well-documented event, how could anyone honestly say that "there was no way we could have known this was going to happen"? How could anyone truly believe that "buying flood insurance was a waste of money because the levees would never break"??????
Generally speaking, those who stand the greatest chance of surviving if/when the SHTF are those who do their own research and threat assessment without regard to "common knowledge" or similar fantasies. They're the ones who use the information they've gathered to create and prepare a realistic and feasible plan, and train/practice on how to implement it.
I won't survive much more than 8 weeks after the pharmacies have been looted because, like you, I need prescription medications. But if I have anything to do with it my wife and son, and my son's family, will.
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My people first
