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HIW, I would like to get your opinion as you are probably the most knowledgeable in this area.
I am designing a new springhouse for the cabin, but I want to run the water from the bottom of the millpond so there is liquid water all year round, run it through a cement cooling trough and back into the spring using water lines buried 6 feet deep to be below frost line.
Now, Because of the mill pond, I will have access to ice and what I am considering is walling off a section of the springhouse and making it into an ice house.
Now, What I am thinking is the springhouse if insulated, will have the nominal temperature of the spring water, so roughly 38 - 45 degrees as the cabin sits at 6500 feet and the spring that feeds the pond only comes out of the mountain about 100 yards from the pond.
The reason I am thinking of putting the springhouse and ice house together is to improve the life of the ice as the flowing water will keep the building cooler than just having the ice by itself.
I plan on packing the ice in sawdust, (got lots of that from the sawmill), and I was thinking of just having the ice on one side of the springhouse to maximize the length of time the ice would last, but with the cooling of the water, if I put ice on 3 sides, would the dead airspace act as more insulation so using the cool of the water and the 3 walls of ice, I could have a real efficient cooler.
So I am just curious what your opinion of this kind of design would be in terms of practicality. If it works like I plan, I wouldn't need a freezer or refrigerator, and my stored food wouldn't be effected by any power issues.
Most of the year I have natural refrigeration anyway as it's a very cold climate at high elevation, but if I could pull this off, It might be a design that others could use all across the northern tier of states especially those off grid.
HIW, I would like to get your opinion as you are probably the most knowledgeable in this area.
I am designing a new springhouse for the cabin, but I want to run the water from the bottom of the millpond so there is liquid water all year round, run it through a cement cooling trough and back into the spring using water lines buried 6 feet deep to be below frost line.
Now, Because of the mill pond, I will have access to ice and what I am considering is walling off a section of the springhouse and making it into an ice house.
Now, What I am thinking is the springhouse if insulated, will have the nominal temperature of the spring water, so roughly 38 - 45 degrees as the cabin sits at 6500 feet and the spring that feeds the pond only comes out of the mountain about 100 yards from the pond.
The reason I am thinking of putting the springhouse and ice house together is to improve the life of the ice as the flowing water will keep the building cooler than just having the ice by itself.
I plan on packing the ice in sawdust, (got lots of that from the sawmill), and I was thinking of just having the ice on one side of the springhouse to maximize the length of time the ice would last, but with the cooling of the water, if I put ice on 3 sides, would the dead airspace act as more insulation so using the cool of the water and the 3 walls of ice, I could have a real efficient cooler.
So I am just curious what your opinion of this kind of design would be in terms of practicality. If it works like I plan, I wouldn't need a freezer or refrigerator, and my stored food wouldn't be effected by any power issues.
Most of the year I have natural refrigeration anyway as it's a very cold climate at high elevation, but if I could pull this off, It might be a design that others could use all across the northern tier of states especially those off grid.
An ice house and a spring house both keep food cooler, but they are different. The traditional spring house is simply an enclosure in a spring, sometimes in a creek or pond. Food is put in waterproof containers and placed in the flowing water. Assuming that the water stays cold enough spoilage will be retarded. An ice house does the same thing, but it's a far better way. The temperature remains cold for a much longer time; the food doesn't need to be underwater. It's a giant version of the kitchen ice box. But an ice house can't do the job of an electric freezer. The ice isn't cold enough, certainly not the subzero temprature of a freezer. If you used enough ice you could pack it around food and probably keep it frozen safely for a while. But you could never freeze fresh food in it. This would only be possible in the polar regions. I can keep food at 33 degrees or higher, depending upon how far the food is from the ice. But frozen food needs to be kept at colder temperatures. If the railroads could have shipped frozen beef rest assured they would have. Pacific Fruit Express and other refrigerator car companies dug ponds next to the railroad. During the winter the company harvested the ice and loaded it into warehouses constructed of heavy wood. During warmer months they loaded ice into the reefers as the trains traveled cross country. It was revolutionary. People far from the growing regions were eating fresh produce. New Yorkers in 1890 could eat California oranges.
We can do the same today; we can keep meat, dairy, and so much more for long periods, as long as we've kept them in an electric refrigerator. We can do it not only independently of the grid, but independently of any generator. We are not, however, going to have freezers with this very primitive technology.
Build your ice house; underground is best. Fill the tanks in the fall and open it up to the cold; let it freeze. Before the weather warms close it. The oldtimers had to use sawdust, but we have all sorts of better insulation. Sawdust creates dead air space, just not as much as the newer stuff.
Having a walk-in cooler is very convenient; you'll enjoy it.
Thanks for the input.
I'm very familiar with Spring houses, used them all my life, I was trying to maximize the cold using both ice and flowing water.
Montana is about as close to polar regions as I want to get as -40 and below isn't that uncommon
We don't have permafrost like Alaska, so their hidy-hole refrigerators wouldn't work, but the insulation of the moss in conjunction with the frozen ground was where the idea started.
I had planned on building underground as well, using sandwiched concrete with foam. I realize that the ground would insulate, but the normal temperature of the soil keeps the root cellar at around 45-50 degrees during the summer, so I wanted some seperation from the warmth of the soil.
The idea came from a couple of old mines near me where snow had blown into the mines during the winter, and ice stays in there all summer, but they are dug into solid rock, not dirt so I think the rock being denser, holds the cold better than just loam or dirt.
If I were closer to them I could use them instead of building my own.
Because of a small trickle of water coming out of one of them from a spring that was hit in the mining process I was hypothisizing that the running water was helping to keep the ice from melting.
I knew I couldn't freeze in an ice house, but it was 27 degrees here this morning, May 12, so freezing isn't usually a problem, however, you have given me an idea. If I had a small chest freezer, when I processed for instance chickens/fish/vegetables and wild fruits during the summer, if I froze them in the chest freezer using my waterwheel generator for power, then loaded the frozen foods into the ice house, I would minimize my use of electricity and still have the benefits of keeping food frozen.
One thing I will have to watch though during the winter, opening up the ice house to get a hard freeze in there isn't the problem, but having wolves and coyotes try to get in there would be.
Perhaps a screen door made from expanded metal, or better yet, kind of a vestibule-box trap so I could get the fur....
Thanks, but I'm thinking in terms of a major purge.
I think you've seen too many movies..... "The Purge"
I would bet most of the yahoos who actually want something like this to happen would be the first to wet their britches when it actually does.... LOLLOLOLOLOLOL haha.
Location: When you take flak it means you are on target
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakster
Anything that generates heat where I live is not welcome. Gas lightning... No thanks.
Already hot and humid enough. We don't have 'winter ice' - it rarely gets below 40F here.
Here = South Florida...
I desire to live simpler, but I want to be "comfortable" too. The options you have in Wyoming are not everywhere. There is a reason you can't find too many buildings here before electricity and A/C was invented...
Yeah - well... South Florida, from what I hear in the news lately, you won't need to wait for an EMP burst, you're all gonna drown!
I think you've seen too many movies..... "The Purge"
I would bet most of the yahoos who actually want something like this to happen would be the first to wet their britches when it actually does.... LOLLOLOLOLOLOL haha.
No I've not seen the movie yet, but now I might want to. I use the word for what it actually means, and YES I'd love to see some people purged, and to do a little purging myself.
I don't why you're LOL'ing either because I'm deadly serious and quite capable.
The Gulf of Mexico remains the epicenter for a foreign attack not withstanding a launching site for an EMP if for example
a tanker flying false flags and looked as simply another tanker passing through the with an itinerary that seems fine.
The tanker could have missile capabilities following a retrofit by a radical nation. This scenario is somewhat far fetched
yet plausible depending on the alertness of Homeland and coastguard albeit Gulf captains recognizing a fishy presence?
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