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LOL!!! you trying to lead the lambs to the slaughter???
Montana is nearly as large as California, but with only 1 million people, and the majority live in 6 larger towns or close by. Leaves a lot of unoccupied space, so yeah, low population density.
Wyoming has fewer people, but is a much smaller state.
Every year in the summer you have a lot of out of staters, Californians especially, that move here and build their dream McMansion and plan on staying.
We can and do get snow any month of the year, but normally the first killing frosts hit in early September.
By October, the snow is starting to stick.
November, the mercury drops below zero.
December, January and February the snow piles up, the mercury stays down close to zero and takes several trips south to the -30 or more range. Add in winds that can and do blow at 70 MPH and can blow for a week causing drifts higher than the houses and dropping the wind chill into the -60 or worse range. Worst I have seen was in the early 80's when the temps were at -70 and with wind chill it was a nippy
-120 degrees.
Last February, one storm alone it snowed for 56 hours straight dropping nearly 3 feet of snow, then when it broke, the temps went down to -35 and stayed there for a week.
March comes along with longer days, more snow, and just for fun, you add in flooding or freezing rain that turns the whole place into a skating rink.
April finally comes along, more snow, ice storms, freezing rain, but some days will warm to 50 degrees. Planting a garden means starting your seeds in the house because it is still far too cold to plant.
May, Spring is here! If you have a greenhouse or hotbed. Killing frosts are still the norm as nighttime temps are usually around 20 degrees.
June. Now you can plant your garden, but don't rule out killing frosts or late snow.
July, Hot. Usually it doesn't get over 100 degrees, but the winds dry out the vegetation, so this is the start of fire season. Thousands of acres of forest on fire means thick choking smoke.
August. Hot, dry, the height of fire season, no rain, dust and smoke. Some days you can't see across the road. The only thing that saves you is if you are lucky enough to get the early snows in September.
Every spring there is a new crop of McMansions for sale as all the folks that didn't believe the stories move back to warmer places.
Montana is a great place to vacation in the summer, but you better know your business if you plan on trying to live here. The same story has played out year after year, why do you think that a vacation destination like Montana only has 1 million people? It sure ain't because the living is easy.
Very few people stay here for 5 years. There are no amenities you find in the city, you actually have to be able to take care of yourself, think ahead and actually be self sufficient enough to fix your own car on a lonely road, or keep yourself alive in sub-zero temperatures.
I think those stats you quoted are put together by either the realtor association or the tourism bureau. They don't reflect what life can really be like here.
Folks are welcome to try and prove me wrong though, thousands have tried and failed before.
P.S. I WORK in Helena, I don't live there as no-one that doesn't want most of their income going to city taxes lives in Helena.
My primary residence is in Sweet Grass county, whole lot different from where I work. And no, I only commute on weekends, but I have a small place outside of Helena where I live during the week.
Montana once recorded -70. It was on Januuary 20th, 1954 at Rogers Pass. That's a few degrees cooler than nearby states. See the first link. Average winter temperatures are milder than Chicago's. See the second link.
A while back you stated that you lived in Helena because of your wife's demands for certain "amenities". Prior to that post you had commented that she demanded the ability to watch "reality shows". You further stated that you went to the mountains (location never mentioned) most weekendsduring the summer.
So, you were lying when you said that you lived in Helena? A leftist poster virtually accused you of working for the government after you had bragged about making decisions affecting people all over your state. You never denied it.
Your big shot mountain man tales are really getting more and more tiresome. Self-reliant people don't work for the government and never have.
Montana once recorded -70. It was on Januuary 20th, 1954 at Rogers Pass. That's a few degrees cooler than nearby states. See the first link. Average winter temperatures are milder than Chicago's. See the second link.
A while back you stated that you lived in Helena because of your wife's demands for certain "amenities". Prior to that post you had commented that she demanded the ability to watch "reality shows". You further stated that you went to the mountains (location never mentioned) most weekendsduring the summer.
So, you were lying when you said that you lived in Helena? A leftist poster virtually accused you of working for the government after you had bragged about making decisions affecting people all over your state. You never denied it.
Your big shot mountain man tales are really getting more and more tiresome. Self-reliant people don't work for the government and never have.
You are sure grouchy this morning, gold prices drop?
As stated, I have a small place outside of Helena. The wife's need for ameneties can be handled by a satallite dish, but she does have medical issues that demand I live closer to a large hospital. The major medical center in Montana is in Billings, about an hour and a half away from my place in Sweet Grass. Where I work during the week, hospital care is within a 30 minutes drive.
You don't have to work for the government to have a job that impacts a lot of people. However, government means that Helena has the most stable economy in the state, so a lot of people commute here from Townsend or Boulder or even Butte and Great Falls to work because this is where the jobs are.
And just because you asked so nicely, while my permanent address is in Sweet Grass county, my cabin is in Park County Montana.
OPSEC means I don't disclose on an internet board my exact addresses, or occupation, period.
I don't have to lie, although it would be a pretty simple thing to do on an internet board. I have posted information on how I live, and if you don't like it, well that is just too bad for you. I have met several people from contacts on this board and they have seen firsthand what I am talking about.
The record low in Montana was recorded at -70, however, factor in windchill and the temps can drop far below that. –70 Degrees
Located more than a mile above sea level — 5,610 feet to be exact — high up on the continental divide between Great Falls and Helena, Rogers Pass is the place where Montana's coldest-ever temperature was recorded on Jan. 20, 1954, when the temperature dropped to a bone-chilling 70 degrees below zero. Source: National Climatic Data Center
Just check the boxes at the top to see the record highs and lows. Mean averages are simply that, an average of the highs and lows, so that means 50% of the time the temps are highter, 50% of the time they are LOWER. If you look at the record lows, many of them are -40.
It gets cold here. People should be aware of it if they plan on trying to live here.
Simple truths.
I don't compare to Chicago or Buffalo or Anchorage, although there are similarities in some areas because the state is too vast for exact 1-1 comparisons, and I don't live in those places so I don't have first hand knowledge of them.
We have a short growing season, water supplies can be tricky to find in a lot of areas, wildlife is dangerous, we are subject to severe weather, droughts, high wind, heavy snowfall, floods, mudslides etc.
Land is expensive here, and you need a lot of it due to the short growing season and need for large hay grounds to provide for livestock. Also, you need buildings to protect your stock and equipment to keep it from being burried in the snow for the winter.
I would agree that not all regions of the state are identical, but for specific areas that I live in, the information was correct.
The OP asked for the best places for off grid living, not for my personal bio, so I simply answered by noting that this isn't the place to come to if you want to have your best chance of living off grid unless you are very experienced with the equipment and knowledge to live in a place that can be very harsh.
Last edited by MTSilvertip; 06-24-2014 at 07:45 AM..
LOL!!! you trying to lead the lambs to the slaughter???
It should stir up the local economy as those Californians move there and build their dream McMansions.
Maine has similarities, only 1 million people, the majority live one city, leaving a lot of unoccupied space, so low population density. A lot of out of staters, move here and build their dream McMansions.
Our primary 'industry' is tourism.
In our township, about 1/3 of the parcels have a resident living there. Most parcels of land here are vacant forest. Some camp on their land once or twice each summer, some only visit their land once every few years.
Now and again a new house is built, often they come abandoned structures within a couple years.
One of my hobbies is to drive around and watch the abandoned houses as they slowly collapse.
You don't have to work for the government to have a job that impacts a lot of people.
OPSEC means I don't disclose on an internet board my exact addresses, or occupation, period.
I think the answer about your occupation is pretty obvious here. Glad we cleared that up!
Signed,
A leftist poster (what is that Happy? ) who has always had a job in the private industry and paid for all his expenses in life without ever being on any dole
Last edited by LordyLordy; 06-24-2014 at 02:05 PM..
I think the answer about your occupation is pretty obvious here. Glad we cleared that up!
Signed,
A leftist poster (what is that Happy? ) who has always had a job in the private industry and paid for all his expenses in life without ever being on any dole
For that you have my sincere respect. Additionally, I believe you when you discuss your activities; they never seem to be braggadocio or just plain bologna as do a certain other's stories. You're intelligent and rational; it's unfortunate that you're one of the enemy. But I still trust you more than I do any government employee.
You'd think we were on the Politics and Controversies forum, which I really do need to stay away from. It's affecting my ability to reason. I've just been in a "lashing-out" mood lately. I don't see any Oregon grapes on "my" bushes this year. Service-berries are doing okay, though.
Anyway, back to your confrontation.
My votes for the OP topic are Montana, North Dakota, UP Michigan, Alaska, Northeastern Nevada/Northwest Utah, and Maine (unless we are including other nations). Not necessarily in that order and heavily dependent on what "style" of off-gridding you are doing.
You'd think we were on the Politics and Controversies forum, which I really do need to stay away from. It's affecting my ability to reason. I've just been in a "lashing-out" mood lately. I don't see any Oregon grapes on "my" bushes this year. Service-berries are doing okay, though.
Anyway, back to your confrontation.
My votes for the OP topic are Montana, North Dakota, UP Michigan, Alaska, Northeastern Nevada/Northwest Utah, and Maine (unless we are including other nations). Not necessarily in that order and heavily dependent on what "style" of off-gridding you are doing.
My top pick would be New Mexico (provided you get yourself a place with a good, producing well). 6+ million acres of public lands, open carry allowed, low population density, good climate (parts of the state have very nice and mild year-round climate). Plenty of VERY small, out of the way communities. There is t least one large, untapped aquifer in the state. Downsides: crime, state income tax, corrupt or incompetent police apparatus. Can't have 'em all.
Montana? Nah, too cold . Land is too expensive there, just like it is in the interesting and pretty parts of Wyoming. Alaska is WAY too cold - it would be a harsh life there esp. if you are homesteading in the middle of nowhere (although I did love "Alone in the wilderness"!).
Those government people do stick together; they think self-sufficency is a government check. They'll find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
My votes for the OP topic are Montana, North Dakota, UP Michigan, Alaska, Northeastern Nevada/Northwest Utah, and Maine (unless we are including other nations). Not necessarily in that order and heavily dependent on what "style" of off-gridding you are doing.
Montana: high taxes, too many Democrats, very progun. Toss up.
North Dakota: very low crime, strong economy, conservative.
UP Michigan: Heavily Democratic (union variety), politically subjugated by Detroit, bad gun laws.
Alaska: suitable but very difficult. A toss up.
Northeastern Nevada/Northwest Utah: great for ultimate survival, easy to get lost. But Utah taxes are very high and Clark County is assuming poltical contol of Nevada. Redoubt country. Build now, but wait to move until the Washington government falls. Plan to tore very large quantities of water. There are many places with no water within fifty miles or more.
Maine: adjacent to the most heavily populated section of the country, heavily Democratic. This isn't 1936.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy
My top pick would be New Mexico (provided you get yourself a place with a good, producing well). 6+ million acres of public lands, open carry allowed, low population density, good climate (parts of the state have very nice and mild year-round climate). Plenty of VERY small, out of the way communities. There is t least one large, untapped aquifer in the state. Downsides: crime, state income tax, corrupt or incompetent police apparatus. Can't have 'em all.
Consider the Five States area, generally considered to be centered around Cimarron County, Okhahoma. Isolated and conservative, it's probably the best choice in the country but not for an old man living alone who doesn't know anyone. Be prepared to do a lot of driving. But you can choose from five states. I've been there; I was very impressed.
So I'm thinking of maybe ditching city life with all the people and problems. Been thinking of buying some cheap land or maybe even renting some wooded forest land from someone. Buying a camper and taking tons of supplies and food for long term survival. Maybe even build a little homestead. Or a cabin.
So now I'm looking into where would be the best place in the U.S. to do this at?
Draw a a line around the entire USA and you have your answer. Truth is, there are thouands of areas where this is possible. Some may have advantages over others or they may have a con you can't ignore.
Too often people talk of their off grid, homestead, living off the land, self sufficient life but the reality is, they have intergrated themselves into society in such a way that they can not live (let alone survive) without the connection to modern society. There is nothing wrong with that unelss you barinwash yourself into beliveng your some survival self suffcient person becasue if your not, you may have killed yourself when things get rough.
So, the first thing to do in deciding places is to follow the good advice of sunsprit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit
Much depends upon how truly "independent" and "self-sustaining" you wish to be.
Will you require access to medical services, entertainment, shopping, recreation? Job? Income generation? Communications? transportation?
you can try being self sustaining and a hermit ...
or you can try all kinds of other strategies ...
what's your pleasure?
"best" has a lot of possibilities which you must prioritize.
The above items are a must to be answered because if you are serious, you need to put away the play acting toys and face certain harsh realities. What are the things you will be depending on society to provide you?
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It sure ain't because the living is easy.
I've just been in a "lashing-out" mood lately. I don't see any Oregon grapes on "my" bushes this year. 
Service-berries are doing okay, though. 
