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Nope. I was soliciting a response, and I got one. Yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc
The ketch or schooner thing is pretty much silly.
Again, nope. Ketch and schooner rigs are commonly known as "balanced" rigs, meaning that they're good (faster, better, etc.) in danged near any wind condition. The much-more-common sloop-rig is okay, but over the long haul they're not nearly as efficient as the "balanced-rig" ketches and schooners.
And of course, opinions are like noses because (a) everybody's got one, and (b) most of them smell.
I think the idea of a Sloop over a Ketch or Schooner is simplicity. Yes, the dual-mast rigs are "balanced" and faster, and can go more directly towards the wind... I'd take a hit on speed and direction in order to have a much simpler rig. It's the basic premise of K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid). Less stuff = Less to break. Ivoc sounds pretty knowledgeable, but personally I'd stay out of the 50-60 foot range. Sure, it CAN be single-handed, but more boat again equals more to break. I could live comfortably on a 35' boat, so why would I need to haul an additional 25'? Decked out in solar panels, and maybe a wind genny, and I'd have enough electricity for lights and radios.
Reverse Osmosis water works well enough to provide drinking water for a couple people. Modern systems are actually getting pretty damn good. As long as you have enough water storage, having water really shouldn't be an issues nowadays. As far as how it WORKS, it's really pretty simple:
That's a bit of an over simplification, but that's the general idea. Usually the water is pre-treated (either chemical treatment, a series of filters, or both). Then it'll be pH balanced (again, a chemical process). Then the water is passed through the membrane filters. Basically, imagine a coffee filter with holes the size of a single molecule of water. The water pretty much just saturates it (think: wet T shirt contest), and then seeps through the other side. Now take that whole system, and put a big water pump at the start of it, to force water through it quicker. Out the other end you'll get a decent stream of pure, clean water.
I was in a RO water treatment unit in the Army reserve and worked for a while in a store selling marine RO systems, they work fine. There are hand operated RO units as well which are a lot of work but will absolutely keep you alive until you can catch some rain.
I would argue that your boat should not be too big; loads (and prices) go up exponentially. Around 40´would seem optimal to me for running long term shorthanded; although you could get by with much smaller. 20 foot boats have sailed around the worlds nonstop and unassisted. A 20´Flicka would probably do. The smaller the boat the easier it is to deal with. Anything over 45´would is in my mind too much boat.
I personally would not count on the engine for much, really could go without it. I have cruised California and Hawaii on a 40´enginless sailboat with no problems. Good Mechanical self-steering, watermarking and a seaworthy hull with good sailing performance upwind and in light air too, something like a Valliant 40 maybe. Long keel or semi long with skeg hung rudder. Good for sea keeping and course holding.
You could spend a year or more at sea without resupplying if you had to.
Not like anything will ever really happen where you need this but as a mental exercise… and well if you have the boat you might as well take off and sail around the world a bit anyways.
I think the idea of a Sloop over a Ketch or Schooner is simplicity. Yes, the dual-mast rigs are "balanced" and faster, and can go more directly towards the wind... I'd take a hit on speed and direction in order to have a much simpler rig. It's the basic premise of K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid). Less stuff = Less to break. Ivoc sounds pretty knowledgeable, but personally I'd stay out of the 50-60 foot range. Sure, it CAN be single-handed, but more boat again equals more to break. I could live comfortably on a 35' boat, so why would I need to haul an additional 25'? Decked out in solar panels, and maybe a wind genny, and I'd have enough electricity for lights and radios.
Reverse Osmosis water works well enough to provide drinking water for a couple people. Modern systems are actually getting pretty damn good. As long as you have enough water storage, having water really shouldn't be an issues nowadays. As far as how it WORKS, it's really pretty simple:
That's a bit of an over simplification, but that's the general idea. Usually the water is pre-treated (either chemical treatment, a series of filters, or both). Then it'll be pH balanced (again, a chemical process). Then the water is passed through the membrane filters. Basically, imagine a coffee filter with holes the size of a single molecule of water. The water pretty much just saturates it (think: wet T shirt contest), and then seeps through the other side. Now take that whole system, and put a big water pump at the start of it, to force water through it quicker. Out the other end you'll get a decent stream of pure, clean water.
The argument for schooners and ketches is that they are better off the wind. If you like the ideal boat to go down wind is a square rig. You just want the dirties sail plan you can get. A sloop cleans the clock of any multi-mast boat going into the wind. But it sucks running down wind. Hence spinnakers and other such sails to compensate.
If one is doing the classical voyaging you generally set your course to go down wind as much as possible. Note also shoal keels are much more practical in much of the world. For instance running the Gulf island with a deep keel is a pain. You need to navigate with care virtually everywhere except well off shore. Note that shallow keels prevent tall rigs so voyaging boats are seldom great sailers.
Sizing of boats is actually more a question of what you can afford. Things get expensive as you get past 40 feet. But you can also get system help on the bigger boats. motorized wenches for instance. And you are not competing so simply setting things up for low force does not cause a problem. The problem with small boats is every thing gets so compact that you can't work on stuff.
The RO drawing is a little misleading. What one gets actually is a heavy flow of salt water out of the page on the left side of the membrane and a piddling flow through it. And the pumps used are pretty heavy involving high pressure 1000s of psi. You force the water against osmotic pressure through the membrane.
The argument for schooners and ketches is that they are better off the wind. If you like the ideal boat to go down wind is a square rig. You just want the dirties sail plan you can get. A sloop cleans the clock of any multi-mast boat going into the wind.
Really the only advantage to a Schooner is that the sail area is broken up into more managable units and a Ketch gives you the option to carry a Mizzen spinnaker downwind like the old Whitbred Round the World Maxis. Other than that it is just a matter of sail area too displacement and modern A-sails work fine.
Really the only advantage to a Schooner is that the sail area is broken up into more managable units and a Ketch gives you the option to carry a Mizzen spinnaker downwind like the old Whitbred Round the World Maxis. Other than that it is just a matter of sail area too displacement and modern A-sails work fine.
True but incomplete. There are also advantages in shoal keel and such configurations. Some of the naval architects have pages of discussions on the trade-offs.
I don't think it is worth the hassle. You give up a little speed and have a simpler boat with a relatively low mast and a shallow keel. Or at least that is why I would do.
Though it does cause envy when one of those naarrow 75s goes shooting passed you at 2 and 1/2 times your speed.
True but incomplete. There are also advantages in shoal keel and such configurations. Some of the naval architects have pages of discussions on the trade-offs.
I don't think it is worth the hassle. You give up a little speed and have a simpler boat with a relatively low mast and a shallow keel. Or at least that is why I would do.
Though it does cause envy when one of those naarrow 75s goes shooting passed you at 2 and 1/2 times your speed.
Its one thing if you live on a river, its another if you have a 30 minute drive to a boat slip. Plus sailboats can be picked up cheap, you can get a water worthy 35 or 40 footer for just a couple grand but the costs of a slip every month can run hundreds plus maintenance. Unless you enjoy sailing its an expensive emergency boat.
I do have a small 12' wooden sailboat/rowboat I could easily get to a river which could lead to the misippi. Mine is a wooden one called an arch davis sand dollar with a sprit sail
Would I bug out by boat? Heck no. As a boat owner I know things break all the time. It would be my luck to get stranded by a mechanical failure. But, boats would offer quite the treasure trove of supplies should they be needed. And I live within walking distance of a marina. It would be a long hike, but still walkable if needed.
Would I bug out by boat? Heck no. As a boat owner I know things break all the time. It would be my luck to get stranded by a mechanical failure. But, boats would offer quite the treasure trove of supplies should they be needed. And I live within walking distance of a marina. It would be a long hike, but still walkable if needed.
Well, it's hard for a 14" foot flat bottom and paddle to break down.
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