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Old 03-03-2015, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
6,743 posts, read 8,505,644 times
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I didn't want to hijack the other thread so I thought I would start a new one.

http://www.backyardbeekeepers.com/facts.html

When I was younger we raised bees, it was fun and did a good job of pollinating our crops, but we had one major problem, bears.

That's just an endemic part of living here thought, but I got tired of feeding them each year so we quit. Now though, in looking at self sufficency on a more total scale, honey is a great way to make your own sugar.

Montana is a major sugar producing state, (sugar beets), but they need a lot of equipment to grow and convert into sugar.

Honey takes a lot less work, never goes bad and has aniseptic properties, plus if you give the bees what they need, they will work for you and not need a lot from you while they give you better gardens, a great food, and make you more self sufficent.

One of my major problems besides bears is the mind numbing cold we get here. I think if I put the bees into one of my insulated sheds for the winter, I should be able to keep them going.
I used to keep at least 1/2 of my bees alive through the winter using piles of straw, but that gets nasty toward the spring after it's gotten wet and frozen/thawed a few times. I think straw inside an insulated building would work better.

To keep animals out, I'm planning on putting the hives on poles or a scaffold with the legs wrapped in metal so the bears and raccons can't climb up to the hives and ruin them.

Because of the strange weather we've had here this year, I'm worried the wild foods may be impacted which would make the bears much worse this year, so I think I'm going to build my poles or scaffold this year, get my hives and stuff put together, then next year get my bees and get them started.

Beekeeping is a great hobby, and can even be done in suburban areas. It doesn't require a lot of room, and while you do need some equipment, you can make a lot of it yourself if you're somwhat handy.

Honestly though, for a TEOTWAWKI event, honey is great for trading and you can make mead out of it too!

Plus, the price of honey in the stores is stupid high, and a lot of it is coming from countries that don't worry about what's in it.

I think this is something that would really add to my operation.

Last edited by MTSilvertip; 03-03-2015 at 11:42 AM..
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Old 03-03-2015, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,485 posts, read 10,430,494 times
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Yeah, I had just been thinking of doing this, also. Your mentioning it just reminded me!

I have a couple of books on beekkeeping. In one of them, there was a photo of a "bear-proof" set-up with a sturdy chin-link fence surrounding the hives (he had a few), complete with chain-link "roof". The bees could fly in and out through the fencing, but the critters couldn't fit in. I don't know if it would work in griz country, but it ought to be sufficient in black bear country (like mine). They also line the lower portion with hardware cloth to keep mice out, if you have mice where you are.

Have not heard of anyone bringing bee hives indoors during winter. Bees produce their own heat. But they need a supply of honey for heat and food, so don't take it all before winter! I guess we need to be more concerned with blocking cold winds, leaving room for ventilation, and not blocking the upper and lower entrances to the hives. This is gonna take some thought.
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Old 03-03-2015, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
6,743 posts, read 8,505,644 times
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Bears as a whole are a pain in the buns as they are strong, smart and agile, and they can do a lot of damage in a short time.


This one was a black bear attack.

Griz in my area can be over 500 lbs. They are super strong, but can't climb once they get about a year old as their claws are too long and won't support them. They routinely tear down chain link fences, or rip apart garbage bins around here. Stopping them with a fence is usually a factor of electricity, and lots of it.

That's where the pole idea came from. Meat Caches on top of poles is how the Alaskans protect their meat from Griz. As long as it's over 10 feet tall, it should be out of reach for them.

Black Bears can climb like squirrels, but they can't get a grip on metal. So a pole that the Griz can't push over and the black bears can't climb, but that the bees can fly up to get to sound's to me like the best option here.
The pole and metal would also take care of mice, raccoons, squirrels, and whatever else wanted a treat.

I'll probably have to support the stand with guy wires as we get some pretty significant winds here. If I put on rat stoppers on the wires, it should also stop rodents.


I used the straw in my past experience, and it did work... but not perfectly which is why I came up with the insulated shed idea. Move the bees when it starts to get cold, let them hibernate in a place that has enough ventilation but still keeps them out of the wind and elements.

Guess I'll just have to try it to see if it works.
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,485 posts, read 10,430,494 times
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Wish Submariner would chime in here. I know he used to keep bees here in Maine. Whether he still does, I don't know. But I'm sure he'd have some advice worth listening to!

BTW, Burt Shavitz of "Burt's Bees" is another Mainer who kept bees - and lots of them. Photos show him with multiple hives just sitting on the ground, as per usual...nothing special done to them. And they had black bear back then, too!
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Old 03-04-2015, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
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Every state has a bee inspector. You may wish to contact his office, to find the nearest beekeeper club. I urge you to attend their meetings.

I attend every month here. It is very valuable to sit in discussion among beekeepers who have been doing it for 30 and 40 years, to hear what works.

There is a lot of research being done now. As a beekeeper I need to stay up on what works.

Things that worked in the 1970s, do not work now.

Good luck
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Old 03-04-2015, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
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What variety of bees do you use Submariner?

What we had were the carniolian type, good producers, tough to keep from swarming. I was thinking of going with the Italian version this time as they are the easiest to get as they are one of the most popular varieties in use today, although I have heard that the Russian bee from Siberia is making some inroads as they are more mite resistant.

While there are several commercial producers around here, none of them are close to where I would place my hives.

The local Murdock's farm and ranch supply is selling bees right now for spring, but I'm not sure what varieties they carry.

Do you have some favorites or insight? I need bees that are cold hardy, I prefer docile to handle, a good quick spring buildup of the hive is a plus.

I've looked at beekeeping clubs here in Montana and the closest one is in Bozeman which is about 90 miles away. Tough to make the meetings, so not a great option. The club mostly consists of commercial producers too which doesn't really help me in my small holder/self sufficient style of production.
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Old 03-04-2015, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,223 posts, read 60,940,482 times
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I have had: Italian bees, black German bees, carniolan bees, and russian bees.

I have not tried: caucasica or buckfast yet.

I have tried a lot of things, so far. It seems that most things I have tried have not been very good successes.
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Old 03-04-2015, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
6,743 posts, read 8,505,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I have had: Italian bees, black German bees, carniolan bees, and russian bees.

I have not tried: caucasica or buckfast yet.

I have tried a lot of things, so far. It seems that most things I have tried have not been very good successes.
I have heard of the caucasica, no experience with them, but never heard of buckfast. what are their characteristics?

Did you have good results with the Russians? I'm leaning that way because I am hoping for more cold resistance, but I heart they are more aggressive and prone to swarm.

I've also been hearing about a Minnesota hybrid based on the Italian bee, but I know very little about it.
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Old 03-04-2015, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,223 posts, read 60,940,482 times
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So far, I have not seen any breed that can consistently over-winter here.
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Old 03-05-2015, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
6,743 posts, read 8,505,644 times
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That's not good, especially not for long term. When I was raising them in the mid-80's, the carniolians we had that I buried under a thick layer of straw would keep going, but as soon as it warmed up, they wanted to swarm.
I used a queen trap to hold them, but if I missed it.... Buying new bees.

I only had 3 hives, not a big producer, just enough for the family, but the last 2 years I had them the bears found me and wiped them out, which is why I quit raising them.

If a bear finds a food source, they will come back year after year, unless you put them in the freezer. Bear Ham and Bear sausage are excellent by the way
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