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Old 08-18-2015, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,840 posts, read 9,151,378 times
Reputation: 13779

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Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
OK, I tried to read every one of the previous posts now my lip is chewed to ribbons so I have to offer some comments. While I do not claim to be an expert I do have almost 25yrs experience in the Electric Utility Generation and Transmission industry. I can guarantee you the interconnected electrical grid in the USA is at risk. Both from Natural disaster as well as physical attack. .......... Sheesh I give up! Don't be ready, don't think it can't won't happen. I couldn't care less. Me and mine will be fine while some of you will be in the dark. 60k gallons of Diesel in a relatively hardened sight on a fresh water lake will make sure of that.......
And how long is your 60 gallons of diesel going to last you exactly? Certainly not "forever", which is the premise of this thread ... that the electric grid would be permanently destroyed.
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Old 08-18-2015, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,683,176 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
And how long is your 60 gallons of diesel going to last you exactly? Certainly not "forever", which is the premise of this thread ... that the electric grid would be permanently destroyed.
Did not you see the K??? That means 60,000 gallons of stabilized fuel. There's a couple of million bushels of soybeans pretty close as well. I have lots of experience in the esterification process to create and use bio-diesel... Not that I'm worried the lights will go out FOREVER. It'll come back sooner or later. The other thing folks seem to forget is that not only is the Electrical grid susceptible to hazard so is the natural gas grid. With more and more coal plants being replaced by gas we are adding one more link to the chain of failure......BTW don't think all the wind towers or solar farms are going to help you out! People don't seem to understand that without ELECTRICITY to start them they are so much scrap on the ground.

Last edited by my54ford; 08-18-2015 at 12:32 PM..
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:42 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,615,100 times
Reputation: 3113
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
Did not you see the K??? That means 60,000 gallons of stabilized fuel. There's a couple of million bushels of soybeans pretty close as well. I have lots of experience in the esterification process to create and use bio-diesel... Not that I'm worried the lights will go out FOREVER. It'll come back sooner or later. The other thing folks seem to forget is that not only is the Electrical grid susceptible to hazard so is the natural gas grid. With more and more coal plants being replaced by gas we are adding one more link to the chain of failure......BTW don't think all the wind towers or solar farms are going to help you out! People don't seem to understand that without ELECTRICITY to start them they are so much scrap on the ground.
Good. Now we all need the space to store 60,000 gallons of diesel and we ALL need to live next to fields of millions of bushels of soybeans. That way, when SHTF, we can just ALL walk out to our own field and turn it into fuel.

As you can see, the above does not scale . What I want to see is advice that will work for the MAJORITY of people, not these anecdotes of someone who spent $100K building a structure to house tens of thousands of gallons of fuel (make sure it is not leaching into the groundwater!), bunkers etc. and surrounded by thousands of acres of their own ranch. That's for the people who a) inherited or b) 1%-ers.
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Old 08-18-2015, 02:10 PM
 
Location: SW MO
1,127 posts, read 1,269,395 times
Reputation: 2571
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
Good. Now we all need the space to store 60,000 gallons of diesel and we ALL need to live next to fields of millions of bushels of soybeans. That way, when SHTF, we can just ALL walk out to our own field and turn it into fuel.

As you can see, the above does not scale . What I want to see is advice that will work for the MAJORITY of people, not these anecdotes of someone who spent $100K building a structure to house tens of thousands of gallons of fuel (make sure it is not leaching into the groundwater!), bunkers etc. and surrounded by thousands of acres of their own ranch. That's for the people who a) inherited or b) 1%-ers.
For a long-term grid failure(a year or longer, just to give the masses the benefit of the doubt), there is no advice that will work for the majority of people. Preparation to survive such a disaster requires either massive amounts of cash, or an extremely high level of skill at not only a hunter-gather lifestyle, but escape and evasion tactics as well. The infrastructure required to survive such a disaster on one's own, sustaining a current lifestyle, is almost impossible to achieve without truly massive amounts of capital expenditure and a large group of variously skilled and highly motivated collaborators. The skills to go primitive and survive the chaos while living off the land are a lifetime achievement for those with the aptitude, which is more time than 99.9% of folks have to devote to learning it, not to mention the absence of the aptitude or desire for most.

The casualty estimates made by experts on this subject are not pessimistic, they are realistic. There is not a workable solution to this scenario for at least 80% of Americans, and likely a much higher percentage. The best way to start planning for your family's survival of such a disaster is to turn off the power and the water meter for a week. Do not go to the store, do not buy anything, and spend the week making a list of what you would need to survive a long term episode of the same occurrence. Once you get to where you can survive the mere lack of power and city water for a term of at least one year, then you get to start planning the methodology and logistics for outlasting the unprecedented chaos and destruction that would result from the loss of the power grid.

You see why there is no workable plan for most Americans? Most of us here would not survive that first year, and many of us are miles ahead of the general population in terms of both supplies and skills. Such a thing would be a meat grinder of unprecedented proportions, and one would need a lot of supplies, a lot of skills, a lot of help, and a lot of luck to have a good chance. I will bet 95% of Americans at least are lacking in at least two or more of these categories. Personally, my luck usually sucks, so I could excel at the rest and still face a crap shoot...
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Old 08-18-2015, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Early America
3,095 posts, read 2,034,770 times
Reputation: 7757
Countryboy73, yes, unprecedented and inconceivable things do happen.
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Old 08-18-2015, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,683,176 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
Good. Now we all need the space to store 60,000 gallons of diesel and we ALL need to live next to fields of millions of bushels of soybeans. That way, when SHTF, we can just ALL walk out to our own field and turn it into fuel.

As you can see, the above does not scale . What I want to see is advice that will work for the MAJORITY of people, not these anecdotes of someone who spent $100K building a structure to house tens of thousands of gallons of fuel (make sure it is not leaching into the groundwater!), bunkers etc. and surrounded by thousands of acres of their own ranch. That's for the people who a) inherited or b) 1%-ers.
LOL The government built it for me and I have access to 5 other sites within a hour drive and 10 if I want to risk getting through a major metro area. As for scale? It's called "distributed generation" And the utility industry is trying to get back to as fast as we can.
P.S. We actually practice for large scale grid failure on an annual basis , more if it were up to me although I make sure my Teams are more prepped then lots of others I know...
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Old 08-18-2015, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,485 posts, read 10,440,644 times
Reputation: 21460
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplySagacious View Post
Countryboy73, yes, unprecedented and inconceivable things do happen.
Indeed, they have throughout history, and always when the populace is complacent about everything remaining as usual, forever. Forever is a very, very long time!
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Old 08-19-2015, 01:08 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,369 posts, read 3,551,726 times
Reputation: 6512
the overwhelming majority of the modern population will not survive any serious and lifechanging event, nor will they want to, I have lost count of the times I have been told on (prepper?) forums "i don't want to survive if I cant have: my normal standard of living, 3 foreign holidays a year, the internet, mobile phone(s), xbox,etc,etc,...............even "coffee to go"!!!! one person even said "lippy and chocolate"!! the current estimate of survival percentages in the UK post event is in the region of 90-95%, this in a country where preppers/survivalists/off gridders are less than 1% of the population.

Last edited by bigpaul; 08-19-2015 at 01:58 AM..
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Old 08-19-2015, 01:35 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,369 posts, read 3,551,726 times
Reputation: 6512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
Indeed, they have throughout history, and always when the populace is complacent about everything remaining as usual, forever. Forever is a very, very long time!
I have always said I would rather be proved wrong than be proved right, but I don't think I will be. if i'm wrong, we have a load of stuff that can be sold and stores of food that can be eaten, but at least I am prepared whereas a lot of people are putting their trust in the government to save them in a calamity which has already been proved to be false. the favourite saying here seems to be "it'll never happen!" but can we be so sure, is there someone out there with a crystal ball or a time machine that can tell us for sure? what is it they used to say.."the future is another country" or something like that. I rule nothing out.
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,840 posts, read 9,151,378 times
Reputation: 13779
This thread is simply too stupid to be true. There is no one, single world wide power grid. In fact, there isn't one single power grid for the US. Consequently, only a massive world-wide catastrophe like nuclear war or a massive meteorite collision could take down power all over the world and keep it down for a significant amount of time.

Furthermore, the electrical grid does not control power production; individual companies, and in some instances, individuals, produce power that is fed into the grid and also taken out of it. That's why John Doe who invests in solar panels or a wind turbine can sell his excess power yet can draw power from the local electric utility if he needs it. The power grid is necessary for transmitting power over long distances and to balance supply and demand over large areas, but it's NOT necessary for the generation of power. Local utility companies/municipal power co-ops can generate and transmit power to their local users without the grid if they needed to do that.

Individuals, companies, and municipalities have been producing and transmitting electrical power for more than 120 years. The technical knowledge is widespread and easily available. Short of some massive physical calamity, permanent or even long-term loss of electrical power over large areas of the US is about as likely to happen as a Zombie Apocalypse.

Furthermore, contrary to what you doomsters think, people are resilient, especially people who don't share your bunker mentality. Y'all go run and hide in your compounds in the middle of no where and chomp your MREs when the power goes down. The rest of us will get to work on getting the lights turned back on.
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