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To all the folks that object to paying taxes because you either think it is illegal to be taxed or you think it is somehow a voluntary exercise, when you are old enough do you plan to tap into Social Security & Medicare that you haven't paid for? If you get sick or are injured in your younger years, will you expect Medicaid to pay your bills? Do you plan on using roads that were built with and that are maintained with tax dollars? And on and on.
This is a prime example of the world's greatest propaganda ministry.
People BELIEVE in their big lies about socialism and taxation.
1. NO government instituted to secure endowed rights can tax rights - only privileges. So always ask government to explain exactly which government privilege is involved.
2. All socialist insecurity is based on voluntary participation. NO law compels participation nor punishes non participants, yet MILLIONS believe they cannot live, work, etc in their own country without 'the number.'
3. The difference between a government spending taxpayer money on infrastructure that ALL can access, versus public charity (entitlements) that are paid to individuals is simple: private charity is a blessing - compulsory charity is a curse. Being compelled to work for the benefit of another is know as SLAVERY. Slavery is never a viable remedy for the ills of mankind.
So all the folks that object to socialist slavery, fraud, and other abominations, hats off to you. And to all those galley slaves cheering their task masters, "boo hiss."
Information on this seems to be scant and difficult to find, so I figure I'll query people who might know.
I'd like to find areas in America where you can be left alone on "your" land (as long as you pay your yearly rental in the form of property taxes, and assuming the government doesn't take your land through the legalized robbery of eminent domain).
To wit - the answers I seek are places that meet all of the following criteria:
1) you don't need any permits to build a structure and live in it
2) you don't need to connect to sewer or install septic in order to build a structure and live in it
3) there are no limits to how many people can live in the structure nor how they are related (you may think this is nuts but in my town, no more than three different families can be represented in the residents of one dwelling unit! Meaning - my wife and I can have two unrelated friends living with us, but not three, no matter how many bedrooms we have and even if we don't charge them any rent!)
4) you can catch an unlimited amount of rainwater without permits nor legal hassle
5) any structures you build do not have to meet any sort of "code" (__especially__ the IPMC)
6) the area has no zoning regulations nor any kind of zoning or code enforcement provisions
7) hauling water is legal (even if you have to pay for the water at its source)
In essence, a place where we can "live and let live". I'm looking at starting a commune, so I have to consider more than just what one family would want or need.
1. Several states have no building code. South Dakota is one.
2. It's unlikely you will find anywhere with no sanitary code. Flies on turds kill babies.
3. What are you doing in town? Are you nuts?
4. No water rights means east coast, which kills 1. and 2.
5. No plumbing or mechanical means no IPMC. Utilities like natural gas and electric will require a code inspection, but that's not a government thing. Stick to low voltage and nobody will care.
Question - most of these counties without building codes, do they also not have a strong police presence? Lots of people hunting, shooting guns, etc.? How does a pacifist who wants to "get away from the world" coexist with survivalists who have and use an arsenal of weapons? Seems like a clash of cultures or even a recipe for disaster, or am I wrong? Just curious, I'm a middle-of-the-road city person, but I've always wondered about this.
Ghost stories are a great way to keep city people huddled in fearful masses. If they moved out of town, they would ruin our neighborhood like they ruined theirs.
Violent criminals are not a problem. Backhoes far outnumber the criminals. If they disappear, they must have moved to California.
This is a prime example of the world's greatest propaganda ministry.
People BELIEVE in their big lies about socialism and taxation.
1. NO government instituted to secure endowed rights can tax rights - only privileges. So always ask government to explain exactly which government privilege is involved.
2. All socialist insecurity is based on voluntary participation. NO law compels participation nor punishes non participants, yet MILLIONS believe they cannot live, work, etc in their own country without 'the number.'
3. The difference between a government spending taxpayer money on infrastructure that ALL can access, versus public charity (entitlements) that are paid to individuals is simple: private charity is a blessing - compulsory charity is a curse. Being compelled to work for the benefit of another is know as SLAVERY. Slavery is never a viable remedy for the ills of mankind.
So all the folks that object to socialist slavery, fraud, and other abominations, hats off to you. And to all those galley slaves cheering their task masters, "boo hiss."
Try not to get hoisted by your own petard. It makes your argument much more convincing when your rhetoric doesn't betray you. Slavery was a viable (and needed) remedy for civilizations even before the Romans and Greeks. The "ills of mankind" is a subjective framing of inequalities that is less a matter of evolution and physics than the current thought of a pontificating culture, religion, or philosophy.
Further, any government can attempt to tax whatever it wants. How far that goes is a separate issue. The concept of human rights fails before any autocrat, which is what Jefferson was trying to point out in the Declaration preamble.
Voluntary participation? Ask a fleeing criminal if he is "voluntarily participating" after being convicted of tax fraud.
Being compelled to work for another is SOMETIMES slavery. It also can be caring for a sick parent, being married, or simply being gainfully employed to earn enough for food and shelter.
As a dyed in the wool egalitarian (even though I recognize that it is not a viable basis for government) I get the general drift of what you are trying to say, but cringe at the way you try to develop the thought.
Bring it all back to the thread topic please, so that I don't have to close the thread or do deletes.
Areas with none of the restrictions listed in the thread title can't be found in the U.S. because there are Federal regulations against such things as building a private nuclear reactor out of found materials. There are areas that are lax in enforcement of some laws and rules, which is about the best someone can hope for without forming a country and hoping that it is small enough to escape the notice and rules of the U.N. and World Court, or larger countries wanting to absorb the upstart via force or economics.
The idea that one can run around like an unfettered caveman now only exists for a few highly endangered indigenous people in isolated areas. The noble savage was always a literary construction anyway.
Try not to get hoisted by your own petard. It makes your argument much more convincing when your rhetoric doesn't betray you. Slavery was a viable (and needed) remedy for civilizations even before the Romans and Greeks. The "ills of mankind" is a subjective framing of inequalities that is less a matter of evolution and physics than the current thought of a pontificating culture, religion, or philosophy.
Further, any government can attempt to tax whatever it wants. How far that goes is a separate issue. The concept of human rights fails before any autocrat, which is what Jefferson was trying to point out in the Declaration preamble.
Voluntary participation? Ask a fleeing criminal if he is "voluntarily participating" after being convicted of tax fraud.
Being compelled to work for another is SOMETIMES slavery. It also can be caring for a sick parent, being married, or simply being gainfully employed to earn enough for food and shelter.
As a dyed in the wool egalitarian (even though I recognize that it is not a viable basis for government) I get the general drift of what you are trying to say, but cringe at the way you try to develop the thought.
Bring it all back to the thread topic please, so that I don't have to close the thread or do deletes.
Areas with none of the restrictions listed in the thread title can't be found in the U.S. [NOT CORRECT] because there are Federal regulations against such things as building a private nuclear reactor out of found materials. There are areas that are lax in enforcement of some laws and rules, which is about the best someone can hope for without forming a country and hoping that it is small enough to escape the notice and rules of the U.N. and World Court, or larger countries wanting to absorb the upstart via force or economics.
The idea that one can run around like an unfettered caveman now only exists for a few highly endangered indigenous people in isolated areas. The noble savage was always a literary construction anyway.
Contrary to your florid prose, advocating slavery to individuals, groups or "the State" is not a viable remedy. And I doubt that any slave who knew of his slavery thought it was superior to being free. But I could be mistaken.
The foundation of all American law is the Declaration of Independence wherein it states all men have Creator endowed rights that governments are instituted to secure (not tax, regulate, nor infringe). All state constitutions repeat the glorious theme of the DoI, making it the foundation of all law in these united States of America.
DO not mistake voluntary charity (a blessing) with compulsory charity (a curse).
Your examples mix and mash them together as if they're the same.
Also, no government instituted to SECURE RIGHTS can tax rights. That has been part of the law, since day one.
That millions of Americans don't know the difference between PRIVATE PROPERTY and ESTATE illustrates that point. No state taxes rights, especially the right to absolutely own private property. But if you register property as estate, d'oh!
IN summation, no statutes, zoning, codes, etc, apply to PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Why? Natural rights and natural liberty apply there and no servant government can trespass upon those rights.
Read the law yourself, and prove me wrong.
It's a long post about a gentleman who challenged the requirement to have a building permit, by simply reading and comprehending the law in question.
This is the "short" excerpt:
Moderator cut: excessive quote that violates City-Data policy and copyright rules trimmed roughly to "fair-use" proportions
To make a long story short, the zoning officer never got back to me
so I went directly to the Township Supervisors and asked them to
bringe forth the law that requires me to submit an application for a
building permit. I did not hear from them so I called one of the
supervisors at home and he said to me:
"I asked our solicitor if there was a law or ordinance that requires
anyone to submit an application for a development or building
permit?" The supervisor then said, "You know, it is the damest
thing, that solicitor just stood there, looked me square in the eyes,
and said, "I am unable to answer that question." Then he walked away.
Notice he did not say he did not know the answer to that question,
only that he was UNABLE to answer it.
I then said to the Township Supervisor, "Very well, I have made a
good faith effort to find out from the Township if there was a law
that required me to submit an application for a building permit
before I convert my garage into an appartment and you have clearly
shown "bad faith" by not bringing forth that law. I am hereby
noticing you that I will procede with my conversion and any intrusion
upon my property by the zoning officer will be considered a breaking
of the close over my land and I will take the appropriate action if
such trespass occurs.
I had no idea what action would be appropriate but I pretended to be
confident that such action was open to me. This supervisor then
said, "You go ahead with your project and if anyone from this
Township gives you any trouble you let me know. I will back you up
100%.
In any case the Zoning Officer went by my project at least one or two
time per week to inspect a new house going up on a lot just down the
street from our house. He never even looked in as he passed by.
Last edited by harry chickpea; 09-07-2019 at 07:07 AM..
Contrary to your florid prose, advocating slavery to individuals, groups or "the State" is not a viable remedy. And I doubt that any slave who knew of his slavery thought it was superior to being free. But I could be mistaken.
The foundation of all American law is the Declaration of Independence wherein it states all men have Creator endowed rights that governments are instituted to secure (not tax, regulate, nor infringe). All state constitutions repeat the glorious theme of the DoI, making it the foundation of all law in these united States of America.
DO not mistake voluntary charity (a blessing) with compulsory charity (a curse).
Your examples mix and mash them together as if they're the same.
Also, no government instituted to SECURE RIGHTS can tax rights. That has been part of the law, since day one.
That millions of Americans don't know the difference between PRIVATE PROPERTY and ESTATE illustrates that point. No state taxes rights, especially the right to absolutely own private property. But if you register property as estate, d'oh!
IN summation, no statutes, zoning, codes, etc, apply to PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Why? Natural rights and natural liberty apply there and no servant government can trespass upon those rights.
Read the law yourself, and prove me wrong.
I'll start by stating the U.S. law flows from the Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence, which was in effect a letter to the king and list of grievances. That is Civics 101. As much as I admire the DoI, your claim is not supported by historical facts, the founding fathers, the law, nor the Constitution.
The DoI was a declaration of war that used rhetoric stemming from French enlightenment authors, Universalist and Deist claims to divine authority, and brilliant use of language to create a rallying cry document that could be understood, and ascribed to, by the common man. In that the commonwealths and states concurrently allowed slavery and indentured servitude, stole land from the REAL natives, and regarded humans as only consisting of land-owning white males, any actionable legal weight was absent. In some ways, it was similar to a declaration of one drunk to another in a bar fight that "I don't believe in drinking (hic!) to excess, but you do, and I find your drinking intolerable and offensive, to the point that I'm leaving and will punch you in the nose if you try to stop me. ... Oh yeah, and I'm takin' my bottle of moonshine and my slave servants with me!"
Slavery: Contrary to New Hampshire auto tag pithiness, many people in history found slavery superior to the alternative of death. Recognizing facts does not equal advocacy.
Voluntary vs. compulsory charity: That is a manufactured division based upon black and white thinking. Charity is much more complex than that. Charity used as a tax write-off is shedding unwanted excess for pecuniary gain. Charity performed for public adulation is ego gratification. Charity performed to improve status within a like-minded group is social climbing and manipulation. Charity enforced by a group (cough *tithing*) to a group or person(s) having unfettered control of the tithes, such as for G*d required personal jets, is a social contract every bit as much as a tax.
Ethical charity is based upon the triple A: agape precepts, anonymity, and altruism. Followers of Ayn Rand are required by strict interpretation of her romantic nonsense to avoid ALL charity else their minds spin to butter, so divide it into "good" and "bad," based upon ego gratification and a feeling of largess that is more palatable.
The balance of your post is heading deeper into the "sovereign citizen" claims commonly promoted by disaffected white males. I personally have found sovereign citizen claims to be not only false, but generally influenced by racists, anarchists, would-be simple-minded demagogues, and other enemies of the U.S.. If such claims belong anywhere on City-Data, it would be in politics and other controversies, not here.
Taking brief note of the verbal jousting referenced in your other post along similar lines, the claimed difference between "applicant" and "person" is specious and would be indefensible in court. I could go into why officials sometimes do what they do, but that is taking the thread even further afield.
Stepping out of my thoughts and opinion as member, and donning the moderator mantle, this forum is "self-sufficiency and preparedness." The OP in the thread asked about places with NO codes or restrictions on habitation. That is not an opening for esoteric attacks on government, "forced charity," or "natural rights." Further attempts to debate or promote sovereign citizen concepts will be deleted as off-topic and trolling.
"Areas with NO zoning / building / septic / occupancy codes?"
In the county of Hawaii (aka the Big Island) one can legally construct up to a 600 square foot building on AG (agricultural land) without a permit. While it's not legal to inhabit an AG building, there really isn't any way to enforce anything not visible from the road either. It's also legal to camp on AG land, though I vaguely remember some stipulation about 30 (or whatever) day time limits, also difficult to enforce. Cesspools (or outhouses) used to be legal on any lot 1 acre or larger, but the environmentalists forced them to change that septic has been required in the last few years.
As far as water catchment, in our district it is the only way for most of the population to get water without hauling it.
Other than mentioned above, we do have strict building codes. Enforcement, not so much. The jungles and forests here are thick, and impossible to see what one is doing on private land without a search warrant.
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