Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've this here before-- an EMP "attack" via nuclear weapon is a really stupid choice-- it will take a fairly large weapon (only 3 countries probably have enough fire power to pull it off, and are also the three with most to lose) and even then it will only affect 1/2 the US- (pick one coast or the mid-section, but you won't get it all) and in doing so, you risk full scale nuclear retaliation.... The grid will be attacked by computer hacking, if they're smart.
A natural EMP from solar storm, OTOH, is almost a certainty. It's not if, but when...and would be much larger than any man made event could ever be.
A lot of global catastrophes are an absolute certainty given enough time. Asteroids, comets, Yellowstone, San Andreas, Ring of Fire. financial collapse, pandemics, mega volcanoes, multi-national wars etc.
That is why saying "Prepping is mostly useless" is a misguided statement.
I've this here before-- an EMP "attack" via nuclear weapon is a really stupid choice-- it will take a fairly large weapon (only 3 countries probably have enough fire power to pull it off, and are also the three with most to lose) and even then it will only affect 1/2 the US- (pick one coast or the mid-section, but you won't get it all) and in doing so, you risk full scale nuclear retaliation....
That's not true.
You don't need a multi megaton warhead to generate a strng enough EMP.
there are devices that have been specifically designed to optimize radiation instead of yield. For example "neutron bombs" are relatively low yield but emit vast amounts of gamma radiation.
A similar approach is used to optimize a warhead for EMP effect.
There are probably at least 8 counties that have that ability and probably more. Not all are stable nor our friends. A terrorist group would be a great patsy to take the blame for launching the attack.
But I do agree on your point about the cyber attacks
The 3500 year reference I assume is about the Bible. [NOPE... all religions denounce usury ... Aristotle, too. I once wrote that 'excepting Satanists' but a Satanist replied that they, too, denounce usury as an abomination. Go figure.]
Usury is allowed in the Bible [nope], the only time it is not allowed is when the loans are done within the tribe. And all debts must be forgiven every 25 years. [NOPE. Ezekiel 18:13 lists it as a capital offense]
Using the phrase 'abomination' is completely false. [Ezekiel calls it an abomination. Jesus is reported to have whipped the usurers / money changers out of the temple.]
Since money was invented every government has held the authority to mint coin. By minting coin, brand new 'money' is created every day. [Not according to US Law]
In this nation, it was W.Wilson who handing the authority over to a private bank.[nope]
Fact #1. Usury, the gain, in money, for the use / loan / extension of credit has been condemned from antiquity. It was a scam based on using 'natural increase' of natural products but applied to money - a dead thing that did not reproduce. All usury requires a growing money token supply in order for debtors to repay without default.
Fact #2. The exponential equation used for compound interest requires an infinite supply of money to function. This is not "news." Run any Future Worth equation over a long period.
In 1836 John Whipple, an American lawyer, showed the impossibility of sustaining long term metallic usury in this fashion:
" If 5 English pennies... had been invested ... at 5 per cent compound interest from the beginning of the Christian era until the present time, it would amount in gold of standard fineness to 32,366,648,157 spheres of gold each eight thousand miles in diameter, or as large as the earth."
Do you think that 32 billion earth sized spheres of gold is a bit 'impossible'?
[MATH CHECK]
FV = PV x (1+ interest)^time
FV = PV x (1+0.05)^1835
FV = PV x 762.7 x 10^36
(10^36 :: Undecillion (Billion Billion Billion Billion)
Fact #3. Aristotle
Aristotle (384-322 BC) Formulated the Classical View Against Usury. Aristotle understood that money is sterile; it doesn't beget more money the way cows beget more cows. He knew that "Money exists not by nature but by law":
" The most hated sort (of wealth getting) and with the greatest reason, is usury, which makes a gain out of money itself and not from the natural object of it. For money was intended to be used in exchange but not to increase at interest. And this term interest (tokos), which means the birth of money from money is applied to the breeding of money because the offspring resembles the parent. Wherefore of all modes of getting wealth, this is the most unnatural." (1258b, POLITICS)
" ...those who ply sordid trades, pimps and all such people, and those who lend small sums at high rates. For all these take more than they ought, and from the wrong sources. What is common to them is evidently a sordid love of gain..." (1122a, ETHICS)
FACT #4. https://www.newsreview.com/sacrament...ntent?oid=7610
Historians trace the practice of usury back approximately 3,500 years, and for the vast majority of that time, it has been repeatedly condemned, scorned and prohibited for moral, ethical, religious and economic reasons. Since well before biblical times, lending money for profit has been essentially forbidden by the tenets of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.
FACT #5.
Usurers "rule" the world. Which might explain their protected status in the world's greatest propaganda ministry. How else can you explain why in the The Divine Comedy Dante usurers are located in the inner ring of the seventh circle of hell, can somehow become heroes rescued from suicide by angels sent from heaven in "It's a Wonderful Life."
FACT #6.
Jesus whipped the usurers / changers of money / money changers from the temple.
And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; John 2:14 (KJV)
KJV References to usury:
Ezekiel 18:13, Matthew 25:24, John 2:14, Luke 6:34-35
[Note: Exchangers = Changers of money = Usurers]
“Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.â€
- - - Matthew 25:24 (Parable routinely misinterpreted. The 3rd servant was afraid to engage in an abomination. The "hard man" / master was the BAD GUY who wanted his servants to engage in usury.)
(If he beget a son that) Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
- - - Ezekiel 18:13 (KJV)
I don't claim to be a Biblical scholar, but if I understand Ezekiel, he's saying any one who contracts for interest (increase/usury) shall surely die and the blame is upon him, not his killer. Might explain how a government that "Trusts in God" has no fear of Divine Wrath for persecuting enumerated usurers. (No member of the Federal Reserve will open a personal interest bearing bank account for an unnumbered American - bless their hearts.)
Fact #7
Congress has the power to coin money (stamp bullion) and borrow money. Congress cannot create bullion, therefore cannot create money, as defined by law. Federal Reserve Notes are IOUs (debt) denominated in dollars but are a minus value (unless redeemed). Art. 1, Sec. 8, Sec. 10. USCON.
Furthermore, Congress began counterfeiting fraction coin after 1965 (and reduced the penalty for counterfeiting, in case we held them accountable), under emergency rules.
Banks cannot create bullion, so they cannot create money, either.
Fact #8
Because of this Biblical condemnation, Christians were forbidden to lend money for interest for centuries. Dante's Inferno places usurers in the seventh circle of Hell, along with blasphemers and homosexuals. In Renaissance society, the only people allowed to charge interest were Jews, which often led to resentment as the Jews were enriched by their shrewd financial activity. [Engaging in an abomination, ahem] However, Christian thinking on this subject has changed, and almost all Christians now either lend their money for interest, or have an account in a bank which does it for them. The last Christian denomination to remove the ban on usury was the Roman Catholic Church, in 1918. (From Wikipedia)
Yes, indeed, the usurers conquered the Catholic Church after almost 2000 years!
One can safely conclude that anyone engaged in usury cannot claim to be in good standing in any religion that prohibits same.
Soundbite version: Ezekiel 18:13 - Usurers are abominations and shall surely die, their blood be on them. Luke 6:34 - Do not lend at usury. John 2:14 - Jesus whips the usurers from the temple. Matt 25:24 - The virtuous shouldn’t work for usurers, or they’ll get punished for their virtue.
Addendum:
ANCIENT SOLUTIONS for USURY
...
While reading about ancient laws and usury, found an interesting theory that various tables of agricultural goods were really references to substitutions for money owed for taxes and / or usury.
“... ancient price tables, like Hammurabi’s, have been misinterpreted as price maximums [but] are really official exchange rates of commodities when used as money.â€
“...by setting official prices for valuing several commodities, [it monetized] them. Thus farmers depending on their harvest to repay loans, wouldn’t be harmed by seasonal market supply changes where bringing in the harvest would normally lower the prices.â€
In other words, if a farmer was in debt to a usurer, the farmer could pay the debt with his harvest instead of money - which would be beneficial if the market price had dropped for that particular item. . . or money was too scarce.
... lending money for profit has been essentially forbidden by the tenets of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.
Just to remind everyone, the Bible still DOES NOT forbid usury.
Quote:
... FACT #6.
Jesus whipped the usurers / changers of money / money changers from the temple.[indent]And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
(KJV)
KJV References to usury:
Ezekiel 18:13, Matthew 25:24, John 2:14, Luke 6:34-35
[Note: Exchangers = Changers of money = Usurers]
The Bible defines usury in Exodus 22:24 and Leviticus 25:36.
Money changing DOES NOT equate usury.
The actions of the money changers in the Gospel account, were all forbidden practices, and they knew it.
There is no record of them doing usury in that instance.
John 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
Quote:
... Fact #8
Because of this Biblical condemnation, Christians were forbidden to lend money for interest for centuries
Again please provide a Bible passage where you think this prohibition exists. It doesn't.
The practice of usury is regulated by the Bible, not forbidden.
Quote:
... Dante's Inferno places usurers in the seventh circle of Hell, along with blasphemers and homosexuals.
Dante Alighieri was an important poet of the 1300s.
He was not a Biblical scholar, and he did not present Biblical facts in this poems. But yes, Dante Alighieri's imagination did fuel a lot of modern thinking.
Quote:
... In Renaissance society, the only people allowed to charge interest were Jews,
The Pope allowed it, because he knew that usury is NOT forbidden in the Bible, and the practicing Jews would stick to operating within Biblical requirements.
Quote:
... which often led to resentment as the Jews were enriched by their shrewd financial activity. [Engaging in an abomination, ahem]
Please, stop making this crap up. Stick to reality and stop talking about your imagination.
Usury is interest on loans. The Bible, for some reason, allows Jews to charge interest. So European Kings employed a "House Jew" to do their loan sharking. That is how the Rothschild dynasty got its start. "The Rothschild family is a wealthy Jewish family descending from Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744–1812), a court factor to the German Landgraves of Hesse-Kassel in the Free City of Frankfurt, Holy Roman Empire, who established his banking business in the 1760s." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family
Jesus was contemptuous of the money changers and once flipped their table in rage. But then Judaism does not generally acknowledge Jesus. So there.
Muslim banks, as a rule, also did not charge interest. The newer banks in Iraq and Libya sing a different tune I think.
Telling the truth feels so dangerous, think I just got a small adrenaline shot.
I have not read the entire thread but my understanding is the Koran (Muslim religion) prohibits interest being charged on money lending so that the workaround is the lender is a "partner" in the project asking for a loan and is repaid that way.
I also remember the Medici's got their start in wealth with another workaround because charging interest for money-lending in their time was illegal. They started what is now call pawn brokers, giving money for saleable items with an allowed time to redeem them at a higher price, therefore not "lending" and charging interest.
Humans are very adept at skirting the intent of laws while violating the spirit of same.
As posted above, grain and merchant loans have been in place since ancient times. However, these were for capital infusions of relatively short duration. The length of time from planting to harvest or the length of time for a merchant ship to have returned from a distant port. The main purpose was for the return of grain or currency to replenish the next trip, more than usury. Seed corn sitting in a warehouse does little good if not planted. Foreign currency gained from the sale of exports has little use other than to fund a return trip to buy more imports. A city state or area that could provide capital for these endeavors had an ability to trade that was unlikely to occur independently.
In Akkad's (Mesopotamia BC 2350 or so) Babylon (then our equivalent of NYC), a marketplace was setup for trade that only city citizens could partake in. This was common in the early city states. By 2000, a warehouse bank of sorts had been established. Only instead of paying interest, the depositor had to pay the "bank" 1/60 of their deposit to pay for safekeeping. However, not only was gold stored, but also seed for crops. By 1000 BC the word credit began appearing, likely as a manner of convenience, in that debts could be paid in multiple ways. In this manner the family of Darius the I, could begin taking loans...but again, these were more based upon capital for entrepreneurship items of scale in the region.
At the same time around 1750, India began issuing letters of credit from merchants to other merchants. This probably acted as a mix between modern fiat currency and short term borrowing more than usury. China began the same around 200 BC.
The link between temples and depository institutions continued to grow in Asia Minor. When calamity struck, a ruler could wipe out the debts of a region. So, if the farmers of a region had planted, but then a war had come which destroyed everything, rather than attempting to collect, the ruler could decree that all loans were forgiven, and whatever preserved capital could be restored anew. The desire to not fight in a temple/church, despite it effectively being a region's treasury, may also have had some adaption of warfare at the time. Pillage the homes and merchants, but leave the seed corn for the are to rebuild.
In the time of Rome, loan centers began for people wanting to make sacrifices to Gods but to whom could not afford it. In my opinion, Jesus would have seen this, along with the multiple religious laws at the time as stifling people and keeping them separated from worshiping God. Hence, the attack on the money changers. Money changers also served another purpose, which was to make good the coin wanted by a seller to what a buyer wanted, as there were many different coins in the day. Though it was often through unequal rates of exchange.
Also in Rome the first guild was created for quasi-banking, building upon the first banks in Greece. Greek rate of interest was approximately 12% for Athens btw. The Argentarii were located near forums of government and activities for money changing activities. This was useful for trading purposes because someone in Rome could pay someone in Greece without having to physically ship money. However, the specific locations could become imbalanced and they could then agree to pay the debts of others where they had surplus money, expecting to have the money returned locally. These were high cost shot term loans at the time. Eventually the different classes loaned to each other. Certain capital amounts could be loaned on for profit while other deposits had to be retained.
From there, the mensarri, or public bankers were formed. In this instance, rather than forgive all plebians of debt after a war....which there were by this point many lenders and not one regional institution, these served to provide more debt to plebians to restart.
In this time the mint became important as pricing things in barter terms was replaced with a currency unit...and the mint then began making lighter and lighter currency as time progressed in ancient Rome. The increase of money allowed the government to spend more, and allowed the various banking classes to make up bad loans with new loans.
Interest was certainly charged by this point, but the debasing currency and fee collection that was more in play as loan duration still remained short for most. Further, as Rome spread, at some point they began having no problem raiding the various treasuries of their conquered lands. Those treasuries helped offset growing corruption in Rome that occurs when life is peaceful.
At this point Christianity was spreading to Europe, replacing the Roman Gods of old. The bible has several old testament texts telling followers of God not to borrow and if they do, to repay their loans quickly, as too much debt can enslave a person to do acts for money and not for God. It would also make sense given the ancient borrowing practice that a good person will repay their debts for the good of all when the ancient depository system was centralized.
Rome eventually fell, as is well known, and with the Roman system having replaced most of the traditional regional financial centers the Mediterranean region fragmented and some areas collapsed completely.
Afterwards, for a long time, usury was forbidden to Christians and in Europe. It could be religious, as it is often spoken of that Christians should not borrow, and if they do to return quickly, in order to avoid serving two masters. Or it could be that gold was a the currency only fit for the nobility and not other classes as the rise of monarchies, which essentially took some of the regional temple depository function, began to form. However the temples, now churches, also rose and capital was split between the two.
Whatever the mixture was, modern day Italians invented the modern dual system method of accounting which is still the basis of what is used today around 1000 AD. Shortly thereafter, the merchant class gave its first try at public banks. In Italy, Jews could lend, but they were not allowed to own land. As such, the trading merchants would generally partner with a Jewish financier in order to make merchant loans...for example, along the Silk Road. In Germany, discounting was determined to not be interest, so shares of a future event could be sold for money in the present without getting a trip to the Inquisitor. Discounting probably had several starts, but it soon became widespread.
Here we had a break in how the same writing was to be used. Jews were forbidden from charging other Jews interest, but were free to do so to Christians. Christians and later Muslims on the other hand, banned usury loans entirely.
The first national bank (of Venice) was created under duress with a proper loan for a good cause (Crusades anyone?) Modern banking quickly spread from there as bankers and their depositors wanted a legitimate way of making money from money, and kings needed a source of capital to fight wars.
The Bible's sole written instruction specifically on usury is Deuteronomy 15:1-6.
1 "At the end of every seven years you shall grant a remission of debts. 2 "This is the manner of remission: every creditor shall release what he has loaned to his neighbor; he shall not exact it of his neighbor and his brother, because the LORD'S remission has been proclaimed. 3 "From a foreigner you may exact it, but your hand shall release whatever of yours is with your brother.
4 "However, there will be no poor among you, since the LORD will surely bless you in the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance to possess, 5 if only you listen obediently to the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all this commandment which I am commanding you today. 6 "For the LORD your God will bless you as He has promised you, and you will lend to many nations, but you will not borrow; and you will rule over many nations, but they will not rule over you.
You don't need a multi megaton warhead to generate a strng enough EMP.
And that's not really true--- the flux of the radiation decreases by the square of the distance. You'd need a 100 Megaton blast from 400 miles high to effectively cover 1000 miles on the ground in terms of EMP. They'd be better off just doing a conventional (?) nuclear attack.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) Modern banking quickly spread from there as bankers and their depositors wanted a legitimate way of making money from money, and kings needed a source of capital to fight wars. 
