Can I live in a tent like I could live in a yurt? (farmers, four seasons)
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You guys helped me before, so I'm back here asking another question.
I bought a small 5th wheel to live in and now I'm sort of regretting the purchase. It needs far more work that I can do all at once. I may sell it, but if I keep it, it won't be livable until past October, if that soon. So my next course of action was to
1) Live in my car and put my stuff in storage ($150 a month).
2) Live in my car and buy a cheap metal shed to put my stuff in (saves $150 a month)
3) Buy a large tent and live in that with my stuff.
I wasn't going to buy a tent, but one came up so cheaply I decided to grab it. It's a pig in a poke, but it might actually be a good buy. In that case, I might try living in it. If it doesn't work out, I'll live in my car and throw a coin up between #1 and #2 about what to do with my stuff.
The tent itself is supposed to be a dome-like tent with three rooms. I forget the manufacturer, but I did look the name up (when I see it again, I'll post it if anyone wants) and they don't make this particular tent anymore. It's three-room, 17' x 18' with a screened "porch" to hook on the front. I didn't see where they called it a 4 season tent, but the description says it will "carry you through all four seasons". It's not a canvas tent and I don't know if it's plastic or nylon or what. It's also supposed to not have any tears and not leak (unlike the 5th wheel).
All of my stuff fits in a 10' x 12' room now, so I see no problem space-wise in fitting everything in there. But I do need to know what I have to look forward to in living in a tent and if that's really what I want to do.
For instance, I have bookshelves and books and tons of magazines, a 7 ft sofa, my bed with a box spring and mattress which will be sitting on the floor, and things of that nature.
I plan to use on side as a small kitchenette with a camp stove and oven. I've been looking all over the place for heating suggestions and the best I could do would be to put a Mr. Heater Buddy or whatever it's called in the middle of the tent. I would never have the heat on while I sleep and I'm used to that, so it would only be on during the day if I was cold.
But what I'm really worried about more than anything else (besides wind - we get lots of wind up here) is condensation inside the tent. I'll have covers on both the box spring and the mattress, but nothing on the sofa. I also don't want to ruin my books and magazines.
Will this really be a big deal or am I worried about it more than I need to?
And if I should decide to do this, is there anything else I need to know about? Any tips people can give me? If this does work out, I may decide to live in the tent for a couple of years.
One other thing I'm worried about is bears. They're few and far between, but they can be in the area. Since I'll be cooking in the tent, I also worry I'll be attracting them to me. Of course, I'd be cooking in my car or in the 5th wheel, too, and if I were living in a manufactured home, my car, or a trailer, I imagine they could also break into those with me inside with no problem whatsoever, so I guess it's a toss up no matter what (I've seen videos of bears just yanking the glass out of cars). But for some reason, I'm more scared of bears in a tent than I am being inside my car. Irrational, but...I plan to have bear spray and make sure the kitchen is on the side opposite the door with the car parked right outside so while the bear is tearing up the food, I can be ducking out the other side into my car to make a getaway. Unless I am the food.
Yes, they're just black bears, but I just read (not on CD) how black bears are more dangerous than grizzlies because they're more unpredictable. I was lots happier before I knew that, guys.
Last edited by rodentraiser; 04-21-2019 at 02:40 AM..
Climate will be a big factor in 4-season living in a tent. As you observe, wind and cold temps are major factors. It sounds like you don’t know if this tent is watertight, nor how capable it is in windy conditions. IMO, until you’ve set this tent up for awhile to see how it performs and how livable the spaces are, you have no basis to plan on living full time in it.
Your concern re humidity in the tent using a Mr Buddy (or any similar type unvented heater) is valid. I used these to heat a 24’ x 36’ x 16’ shop I was building a year ago here in the low humidity area of Wyoming, and the amount of moisture condensing on all the interior surfaces was considerable. Tools such as saw blades were rusting from all the moisture. As well, your indoor unvented kitchen and/or heating water for various purposes will add to the humidity load inside the tent, especially if you are using a gas burning stove. In the high humidity of WA, you may well create a thriving environment for moisture damage and mold growth.
In bear country, cooking and food storage are problematic. I’ve seen the damage bears do to everything from coolers and refrigerators to vehicles where food was stored ... including RV’s, campers, cars, and airplanes. So, the problem of attracting a bear isn’t limited to your cooking food, it’s also your food storage. Such items inside your tent are an attraction for a bear. Don’t forget that food scraps and garbage are also an attractant for bears, so your camp sanitation is a big deal, too. Obviously, there will be some months when the bears are more active and the exposure risk is greater before their hibernation months.
The stuff you’ve read about bear encounters is true ... essentially they’re no big deal in many places until the day comes when one shows up and becomes a big deal. I had a mountain house in Colorado for decades with no bear problem until one day a bear did show up and trapped itself on an enclosed porch next to the kitchen. The damage it did trying to break into the kitchen and get out of the porch was incredible. Guests inside the house at the time were terrified as they had no other escape than the front door leading out through the enclosed 2nd story enclosed porch. Fortunately, the bear did leave without getting inside the house, but it tried for about 15 minutes.
Having enjoyed weekend long snow tent camping trips for many years, I appreciate the outdoor experience on a short term basis. But I get to “pick ‘n choose” how severe the conditions are that I’m out there and can avoid the worst of it. “Full time” as a primary residence may prove to be a significant hardship in the depths of a winter storm in a remote location. IMO, a structure such as a 4-season camper may be a better choice with proper heating/insulation/weather-tightness/ventilation options & control/sanitation/organized stowage and storage, and the ability to “pick up camp” and move more readily than tearing down a tent and then having to re-erect it on another site during circumstances beyond your control. Moving that tent entails packing and unpacking everything in it and transporting it ... bed/furnishings/books/kitchen & food/utensils & equipment ... a substantial effort every time.
A yurt is a whole ‘nother scenario. They range from crude basic structures to homes that are as fully finished and equipped as any modern house except for having a fabric roof structure. We’ve got friends with a ranch that have built up and furnished several that are as comfortable as any modern house, complete with an insulated fabric roof liner that can be deployed in cold weather months. Retract the liner in warm weather months and a starry sky presents through the light color covering at night.
First, if you care anything about your stuff, put it in storage. It will probably fit into a 5' x 10' unit if you pack it well, and that should be less than $150. Otherwise, it will get ruined by dampness, mildew and insects. And theft. If it's in storage, it'll be safer.
Any camper knows you don't keep your food in your camp. That can get you killed. Find a way to pack it up between meals, and hang it from a tree with ropes or paracord, at least 100' away from your sleeping area. Don't even bring it into the tent.
With no food in your tent, you should be safe from bears, as it's the food they want, not you.
My guess is that living in a tent all winter will get old fast. At least build some sort of a platform to put it on. Cement blocks are cheap and will not rot from ground contact. You can cover them with OSB board; for a 17' x 18' tent, you'd need about ten sheets. Then work on a rain fly of heavy duty tarps, staked to the ground. If you get snow, you may want to reinforce the interior of the tent roof with 2 x 4s.
Buddy heaters are not your only heat option. A kerosene heater will cost about the same, but you can safely sleep with it on. In the amounts you'll be using, the fuel costs will be similar, but you'll be on the road refilling every week, at least.
You didn't say if you owned or leased the land where you'll be staying, or if you would have to squat and move on periodically. If the latter, you will need to stay lean and nimble with your camp. That storage unit will be even more necessary. If it were me, I would trade the 5th wheel for a smaller camper, even a teardrop. Solid walls between you and the outdoors is always better. Even so, keep your kitchen gear 100' feet away, elevated from bears.
Living in a tent long term is doable, but not comfortable. A canvas tent would be better especially in a wet or cold climate. Tents like you describe are tough to heat, and are really noisy in wind.
Condensation is an issue especially if you plan on cooking in the tent. (NOT a good idea in bear country). Most tents have vents for ventilation, but the value is negligible in humid places or when using propane heat or cooking.
With the situation you describe, I would recommend securing your stuff in a good storage unit and fixing your hard sided camper. It'll be easier to heat, dryer in rain, quieter in wind, and safer in bear country. Even raccoons can tear into a tent for food, they offer no protection from wild life, limited protection from heavy rain and wind, they can be heated, but need a lot of fuel since there is no real insulation.
I've spent a lot of time in tents during hunting season, but we use canvas tents heated with small woodstoves. We have a separate cook tent, and while we are fairly comfortable, you always need to wear a coat and long underwear. You always wear shoes or your feet freeze.
You need a heavy sleeping bag, and sleep in your clothes. Not a comfortable existence for long term.
I think fixing your camper would be best for long term. Living in a car for more than a night or two isn't an option. You'll never be comfortable or get a good night's sleep.
If the problem with the 5th wheel is leaking, why don't you get one of those cheap plastic carport things to put over it? It would also help keep it cool in the summer.
I don't know what they are called exactly, maybe somebody here can help me, but a common weather shield here in Hawaii uses 1" steel electrical conduit and brackets that bolt together to create a frame that you attach a special tarp with tarp balls. They aren't that expensive and come in sizes ranging from 10x10 to 40x40, and you can hook them together to create as much under-weather space as you need (thousands of square feet). We have a 20x20 model we were using as a 2-car carport but after about 5 years the tarp needed replacing so we bought a clear tarp and repurposed the frame to create a greenhouse.
If you look at the drone footage on this FB page it shows a farmer's market where all the weather shelters are electrical steel conduit and tarps:
I should have been more specific with a couple of things.
The land I'd be camping out on will be my own. The other thing I'm facing is not needing to spend too much money and that's a problem right now since I got the trailer. I had planned on getting one, but not quite so soon.
I've lived in my car before and also in my truck, so that's not a problem. I did have my stuff in storage then, though, and that is something I'm trying to avoid now. I'm trying to save as much money as possible as fast as possible and if I can move out onto my lot, I can save maybe $900 a month. If I did that, in less than a year I could have electricity on the lot.
The only problem with a car is I probably couldn't have heat in it. A kerosene heater in the tent might work, though. I'll be going in for groceries and the laundromat at least once a week anyway, so getting kerosene every week is probably doable. As I said, I'm used to sleeping without heat at night. I used to live in a trailer where I'd try to save on electric bills and I always turned the heat off at night, even in winter when the temp would get down to the teens (usually the lowest they ever go here).
Everything else costs more money than I have at the moment. Getting a faucet on the lot is top priority. So I can either do the water or fix the 5th wheel, but not both. If I have to get the water first, then save to get the trailer fixed or buy a decent shed, it'll take longer to move out and that means less money saved. I really don't want to move out in the middle of winter, either.
Meantime, a cheap metal shed costs at minimum $350. I was looking at carports, but the only ones I saw will cost $1000 minimum. Besides, the trailer needs fixing up. There's water damage and other things that need to be done that I can't physically do right now, so finding someone else who can do it also costs money. The tent only cost $50 and I decided I could deal with that. I priced out a yurt once and they run about $15,000 to buy and set up. For that amount, I could start an order on a permanently anchored-to-the-ground tiny house which I'd prefer over a yurt anyway.
Yeah, I knew I was going to have to set the tent up on some sort of platform, so I'm happy to see a suggestion about that. I was thinking pallets might work, but cement blocks sound a lot better.
I wouldn't be living in exactly the wilderness, but I do know cougars and bears are possible. Once every ten years or so there's a story where a school has to be shut down on the outskirts of my city because of a cougar or bear sighting. Back in 2003, a neighbor of mine in the same area reported finding a black bear on her porch one night. I never saw a raccoon in that area, but I do know we have coyotes up the ying yang. I've seen those come right out into the yard at my old house, curl up and go to sleep in the sunshine. So there's a possibility of attracting a bear, probably on the order of the California big one happening.
I need to rethink this. I wouldn't mind living out of my car as I first planned to do, but I don't have the money right now to get a shed for my stuff and storing it sort of negates the reason for moving out to the lot in the first place.
Edited to add: I guess the whole thing could be solved by me staying where I'm at another year, but I feel like my physical health is degrading by living where I'm at. And that would be one more year to set me back and lots less money saved on account of paying rent.
Last edited by rodentraiser; 04-21-2019 at 03:03 PM..
Growing up, my family did a lot of camping in a 3 room tent similar to the one you describe. It was very damp - sleeping bags (on air mattresses) were damp, and so were all our clothes stored there. I wouldn't recommend storing magazines and books in a tent, as there is a chance they may be ruined.
Are you sure you need to get a spigot first? A 20x20 tarp will harvest about 60 gallons of water with only 1/4" of rain. Assuming you're harvesting in a 50 gallon barrel that would be a good size. You could setup a simple catchment system and maybe postpone bringing in the water line until closer to winter where it sounds like you'll have problems getting liquid precipitation. We get all our water from our roof.
Are you sure you need to get a spigot first? A 20x20 tarp will harvest about 60 gallons of water with only 1/4" of rain. Assuming you're harvesting in a 50 gallon barrel that would be a good size. You could setup a simple catchment system and maybe postpone bringing in the water line until closer to winter where it sounds like you'll have problems getting liquid precipitation. We get all our water from our roof.
How safe is that water to drink, though?
I think a catchment system would cost more than I can afford right now. I'd only be paying $800 for the spigot to be brought in, then another $800 for the water to be hooked up. The last time I moved up here and hooked up to water on another system, it was $5000. I don't want to put the hook up off for too long in case it goes up. Eight hundred for a water hook up in this area is peanuts.
As for doing a catchment system myself, I'm not really able to do much physically right now. I am hoping that getting on the lot and moving around more will help that.
I should be more explicit. If I want water in by July, I need to spend money on absolutely nothing more until then except for my rent and computer connection, and I was thinking of shutting the computer down as well.
On top of everything else, we had a summer practically without rain last year, and it looks like it might be the same thing again this year.
Two other possible options:
Possibly pay someone to gut the entire 5th wheel if you can't do it yourself. An empty camper shell would be more comfortable than a tent. Camper roofs can be usually be sealed up well and leaks fixed with a bucket of white acrylic or silicone elastomeric roof coating too. Of course, there's the possible mold issue, then all the insulation would have to be ripped out as well.
Or could you sell your car and 5th wheel and buy a van or minivan? I've seen some pretty sweet minivan RV conversions, with full sized beds in the back with storage underneath. Minivans are abundant with relatively low miles for fairly cheap prices and have quite a bit of space with the seats removed. Super stealthy as well in case you ever needed to park it somewhere off your land.
Possibly pay someone to build you a very small inexpensive "shed" that you can stay in. A plywood shack would be better than a tent. You could do something small like a post and beam style 8x8 sized building for pretty cheap, and then it would work well for future storage as you improved.
Living in a nylon tent won't be fun. Sometimes you can find canvas wall tents for sale in the $300ish range that you can at least put a wood stove in.
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