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View Poll Results: SHTF... what's the most likely?
Social Unrest 34 39.53%
Government upheaval/overthrow 8 9.30%
Nuclear attack 1 1.16%
Conventional War/Invasion 0 0%
Pandemic 11 12.79%
Financial Collapse 22 25.58%
Climate 1 1.16%
Aliens 3 3.49%
Poles shift 0 0%
Other 6 6.98%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-17-2020, 01:15 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,687,864 times
Reputation: 24590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
If the current effort to destroy SS succeeds, it will throw millions of senior citizens into abject penury. The bottom line is, if you are over 65 you will probably be a deader. That's about as SHTF as it gets.
you dont really need social security. you can just roll those seniors into ebt, medicaid, welfare, etc.
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Old 08-17-2020, 02:01 PM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
8,918 posts, read 4,645,770 times
Reputation: 9237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Hurricane response 'experience'. Urban areas it's less, around 10 days. As you get more and more out of town (further from a substation) they're generally the last for restoration. Utilities restore based on how many customers and the ease of restoration first. However if you're on a marine/underwater cable radial , all bets are off. If that cable failed it's a problem.

Just personal experience from 50+ hurricane responses from Texas to North Carolina.
OK, that is fair. I was going by my experience in watching how fast human behavior degrades, as well as how many people would be out of food and water, and off their meds. Also, you were looking at situations where the outage was local and I was looking at super-regional outage.

Local: typically less than 60 mile radius, and Fema will arrive to mitigate infrastructure disruption.
Super-regional: More than 600 mile radius, and Fema, nor any other organization, will be able to mitigate the impact.
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Old 08-17-2020, 02:49 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,687,864 times
Reputation: 24590
human behavior will degrade very quickly if people get hungry with no means of getting food and water.
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Old 08-17-2020, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,724,472 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Extended power outage... what's the time range for "extended"? Puerto Rico had it's whole system rebuilt in a year. Our system is much more robust.
and much more completed. PR didn't have to replace MAJOR transformers.....It takes over a year to replace a 10000kva transformer and they come from overseas in most cases...
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Old 08-18-2020, 04:44 AM
 
Location: Florida
14,968 posts, read 9,804,055 times
Reputation: 12075
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
and much more completed. PR didn't have to replace MAJOR transformers.....It takes over a year to replace a 10000kva transformer and they come from overseas in most cases...
We did a 720 MVA GSU in 22 days from failure to in service
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Old 08-18-2020, 04:52 PM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
8,918 posts, read 4,645,770 times
Reputation: 9237
If anyone is wondering what a collapse might look like, this is one of the best researched and balanced video series I have ever come across.
Easy to follow, not too much blood and gore, but enough that it isn't candy coated.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...wNCZ_VduBWy21C
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Old 08-18-2020, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Florida
14,968 posts, read 9,804,055 times
Reputation: 12075
The premise that the transformers will "over heat" and therefore fail is wrong. Transformer protection schemes are much more sophisticated than that.

Yes the transformers would/could be disabled... but the return to service would be days assuming the core/windings weren't compromised. I recall a 300MVA auto transformer that was shot up. The tx went into alarm and the troubleman showed up and plugged the bullet holes with a broom stick handle. He called the substation and they came out and added oil and the tx remained in service the entire time.

The clean up was a mess.
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Old 08-18-2020, 08:11 PM
 
4,021 posts, read 1,797,654 times
Reputation: 4862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
If the current effort to destroy SS succeeds, it will throw millions of senior citizens into abject penury. The bottom line is, if you are over 65 you will probably be a deader. That's about as SHTF as it gets.
Again - what is the 'current effort to destroy Social Security'....?
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Old 08-18-2020, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,678,616 times
Reputation: 25236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody01 View Post
What is the 'current effort to destroy Social Security'....?
It's called the Payroll Tax Holiday. No money = no money. Did you miss the headlines?
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Old 08-18-2020, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,678,616 times
Reputation: 25236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Extended power outage... what's the time range for "extended"? Puerto Rico had it's whole system rebuilt in a year. Our system is much more robust.
People are scared of the dark. This is particularly bad because we have a whole population that has never been in the dark in their lives. Remember the horror stories that came out of the Superdome after Katrina? There was some hooting in the dark, which triggered stories of rape and murder. Nobody was getting hurt, and the worst damage was that the toilets filled up. Yuk.

During a power outage, city people head for the streets because vehicles have lights. The next day the sun comes up like normal. Without communications, the worst that happens is that you have to talk to strangers, you know, the people next door?
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