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Most large companies including require that you agree to arbitration when you sign up with them:
But, they would have to show up in court to argue that your case isn't valid because of an arbitration agreement.
Plus, arbitration agreements aren't allowed in many states, including CA, I believe.
Either way, though, they would have to show up in court to argue. They'll try to bully you into dropping your case or not filing it, saying you agreed to arbitration - but if you file anyway, and they don't show up - you win automatically. So, they must show up to win. And if it's small claims court, they can't send a lawyer. But, they'll be paying a lawyer to prep someone to show up - all of whom will need to be paid for their time - to show up in court - and argue that you shouldn't be in court - because you have an arbitration clause.
See what I mean?
It's way cheaper for them to settle with you.
The Hartford adjuster cut and pasted part of my policy and sent it to me in an email, that basically said why they didn't have to honor my claim. I argued that the clause wasn't allowed under CA law, so we can just let a judge decide.
Just because they put a clause in a contract, doesn't mean it's legal. But, even if it turned out to be legal, as I say, they'd still have to pay someone to show up to explain to the judge that you don't have a case based on the arbitration clause, etc. And if the defendant doesn't show up to small claims court, you win by default.
But, they would have to show up in court to argue that your case isn't valid because of an arbitration agreement.
Plus, arbitration agreements aren't allowed in many states, including CA, I believe.
Either way, though, they would have to show up in court to argue. They'll try to bully you into dropping your case or not filing it, saying you agreed to arbitration - but if you file anyway, and they don't show up - you win automatically. So, they must show up to win. And if it's small claims court, they can't send a lawyer. But, they'll be paying a lawyer to prep someone to show up - all of whom will need to be paid for their time - to show up in court - and argue that you shouldn't be in court - because you have an arbitration clause.
See what I mean?
It's way cheaper for them to settle with you.
The Hartford adjuster cut and pasted part of my policy and sent it to me in an email, that basically said why they didn't have to honor my claim. I argued that the clause wasn't allowed under CA law, so we can just let a judge decide.
Just because they put a clause in a contract, doesn't mean it's legal. But, even if it turned out to be legal, as I say, they'd still have to pay someone to show up to explain to the judge that you don't have a case based on the arbitration clause, etc. And if the defendant doesn't show up to small claims court, you win by default.
Arbitration is perfectly legal in California and the defendant does not have to appear in Small Claims Court they simply respond to the summons by mail with a copy of the arbitration agreement and a venue challenge. Doing that takes 5 minutes for a clerk in the companies legal department so unless it's a very incompetent or tiny firm you can fully expect that to be their response. A better recourse is a letter to your State Attorney General consumer affairs division and a letter to BBB. I just went through this with Samsung when they tried to screw me out of $175 on a phone trade in, it took persistence but I got my money back.
Something I didn't know until I went through this with Samsung is that most, if not all, of these click through arbitration agreements include a way to opt out if you do so within 30 days, so read the small print and opt out of these whenever you can, they also preclude class action suits.
Arbitration is perfectly legal in California and the defendant does not have to appear in Small Claims Court they simply respond to the summons by mail with a copy of the arbitration agreement and a venue challenge. Doing that takes 5 minutes for a clerk in the companies legal department so unless it's a very incompetent or tiny firm you can fully expect that to be their response. A better recourse is a letter to your State Attorney General consumer affairs division and a letter to BBB. I just went through this with Samsung when they tried to screw me out of $175 on a phone trade in, it took persistence but I got my money back.
Something I didn't know until I went through this with Samsung is that most, if not all, of these click through arbitration agreements include a way to opt out if you do so within 30 days, so read the small print and opt out of these whenever you can, they also preclude class action suits.
I disagree that this will only take 5 minutes, and therefore, doesn't cost a company any money.
Let's just picture how it would actually work in a corporate world. The suit notification and/or subpoena gets sent to the legal department. The legal department has someone look at it and read it, and then assign it to someone. That person then has to research the case, who the client is, what the facts are, etc. Then, look at what are the laws in that particular state, etc. It ends up on some paralegal's desk who has to figure all of that out.
Then, there is a meeting where this case is brought up, and those who have researched it give a presentation or a document is produced at the meeting. Then they discuss how they are going to handle it. Then, maybe they assign the response to an in-house attorney or paralegal who will file some motion with the court contesting venue or the arbitration clause. Then, it goes to the mail room or someone else who deals with actually filing that motion with the court where it's assigned. Then, someone gets to file that info and put on the calendar a follow-up to make sure it's been filed and to find out how the court in question dealt with it......on and on.
I don't know what your agenda is here, but you are wrong as far as how this works, from my personal experience.
And, no, arbitration is not perfectly legal in CA in all cases. I'm willing to look at any actual California codes you can provide that says that arbitration is legal regarding the case at hand.
If you personally had some kind of bad experience, I think you were snowed. But, without all of the details, I can't make a determination. But, I am absolutely sure, that a company cannot deal with a lawsuit in 5 minutes.
Last edited by NoMoreSnowForMe; 07-27-2018 at 06:06 PM..
I disagree that this will only take 5 minutes, and therefore, doesn't cost a company any money.
Let's just picture how it would actually work in a corporate world. The suit notification and/or subpoena gets sent to the legal department. The legal department has someone look at it and read it, and then assign it to someone. That person then has to research the case, who the client is, what the facts are, etc. Then, look at what are the laws in that particular state, etc. It ends up on some paralegal's desk who has to figure all of that out.
Then, there is a meeting where this case is brought up, and those who have researched it give a presentation or a document is produced at the meeting. Then they discuss how they are going to handle it. Then, maybe they assign the response to an in-house attorney or paralegal who will file some motion with the court contesting venue or the arbitration clause. Then, it goes to the mail room or someone else who deals with actually filing that motion with the court where it's assigned. Then, someone gets to file that info and put on the calendar a follow-up to make sure it's been filed and to find out how the court in question dealt with it......on and on.
I don't know what your agenda is here, but you are wrong as far as how this works, from my personal experience.
And, no, arbitration is not perfectly legal in CA in all cases. I'm willing to look at any actual California codes you can provide that says that arbitration is legal regarding the case at hand.
If you personally had some kind of bad experience, I think you were snowed. But, without all of the details, I can't make a determination. But, I am absolutely sure, that a company cannot deal with a lawsuit in 5 minutes.
Seriously, just because someone does not agree with you does not mean that they have an agenda.
And this describes California law and insurance arbitration agreements:
Quote:
. In states that have no statutes or regulations prohibiting arbitration provisions in insurance contracts, such as California (with an exception for HMO contracts) and New York, arbitration provisions are enforceable.
There have been differing opinions but they have to do with employment arbitration agreements. If you think I'm wrong, then by all means provide proof of it.
Location: In a perfect world winter does not exist
3,661 posts, read 2,947,010 times
Reputation: 6758
Update- last week a rep from Paypal who deals with chargebacks tried to get the 39.99 chargeback reversed due to me being with paypal for 14 years and over 15k worth of goods sold and processed thru paypal. She was going to put in a request and sounded confident I would be given as a goodwill gesture back 40 bucks.
Did not happen, the request by her was denied, case cannot be reopened by paypal even with proof of item delivered. Paypal seller proctection is useless. Another phone rep says the buyer's bank overrule any paypal agreement.
Upon phoning prior to knowing this, I was instantly transferred to paypal internal collections.
F it all. 14 year customer and 15k of payments sold and fees collected off that 15k and they don't have my back for 40 bucks.
Update- last week a rep from Paypal who deals with chargebacks tried to get the 39.99 chargeback reversed due to me being with paypal for 14 years and over 15k worth of goods sold and processed thru paypal. She was going to put in a request and sounded confident I would be given as a goodwill gesture back 40 bucks.
Did not happen, the request by her was denied, case cannot be reopened by paypal even with proof of item delivered. Paypal seller proctection is useless. Another phone rep says the buyer's bank overrule any paypal agreement.
Upon phoning prior to knowing this, I was instantly transferred to paypal internal collections.
F it all. 14 year customer and 15k of payments sold and fees collected off that 15k and they don't have my back for 40 bucks.
Go to hell paypal.
Did you ask them why they don't pull out the records from when you provided them with shipping information? If you provided that to them it's on them if they didn't maintain a record of it.
Location: In a perfect world winter does not exist
3,661 posts, read 2,947,010 times
Reputation: 6758
They don't have a record of it anymore. I blame that on myself, I should have gotten the 1st phone rep's name and ID and had it documented that I won round 1 and that should have been it.
Location: In a perfect world winter does not exist
3,661 posts, read 2,947,010 times
Reputation: 6758
I have been reading online complaints about paypal. The part where scammers filing false " not authorized" claims and getting money back and also NOT having to return the item has been going on for years. How paypal does not step in and do the right thing and force a return to get money back is criminal. Please spread the word around as paypal will not lean on the credit card companies and banks on your behalf whatsoever. Its a donation and the amount can be in the thousands and thousands with nothing you can do but knowing you just gave away an item.
Not one, but two people at my work have reported someone compromising their PayPal accounts, ultimately ending up having money drafted out of their checking accounts because they were linked.
Anyone else?
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