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Old 04-26-2020, 08:03 AM
 
236 posts, read 70,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
If you are talking about the practice with the FC Dallas boys club, I was there. If you are talking about the USMNT U17 game in 2015, while I was not there I understand that it was far more serious and there was without question some intent to embarrass going on, sort of like the US against Thailand in the 2019 WWC.

The FC Dallas practice was not serious at all. It was either the day of the Russia game or the day before, I cannot recall. The USWWNT were practicing for the Russia game and had been training in the FC Dallas facility. The boys team, with other club teams, were training and also invited to watch the USWNT practice and meet the players. As a thank you to the club, they played a short scrimmage. It was interrupted frequently, set pieces were repeated frequently, and lots of "war stories" were shared during the event. Not a serious thing at all. They warmed up together too, played Rondo, did soem long/short kick relays and a few other warm ups. The USWNT players were not playing hard at all, they were loosening up for match within 24 hours. You don't try to go all in against kids when you are playing a contest that night or the next night. After the practice there were pictures taken together and lots of laughs. There is no question the score at the end favored the buys, but the women were hardly trying their best. Now, that being said, a 15 year highly athletic male is likely faster and stronger than a highly athletic 30 year old female. It is the way testosterone works. Give me the most athletic 8 year old boy and the most athletic 8 year old girl, and you will see its almost even. On my U10 team two years, we had 3 amazing girls who go toe to toe with any boy. That changed so much by now. In the fall, none of those girls could play with the U13 boys. By HS, the difference is even more amazing. But I maintain that strength and speed are completely distinct from skill.

I have heard the U17 match got a little nasty, with rough plays, take downs and some warnings had to be issued. That team had players like Giovanni Reyna, Gianluca Busio, Alfonso Ocampo-Chavez and others playing at the professional level around the world today. I would love to see it, but I have no problem believing a team of the best U17 players in the US could beat the best adult women. Again, its science. But I do not understand and never will understand how this makes watching great women play each other less enjoyable. Unless of course, one just hates watching women playing sports in general.
LOL. You were not there. The U15 Boys today would beat them just as badly.
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Old 04-27-2020, 01:06 PM
 
892 posts, read 880,908 times
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Originally Posted by CHRockwell View Post
LOL. You were not there. The U15 Boys today would beat them just as badly.
Yes I was. If the US U15 team played the USWNT, I agree that it would be a lopsided game in favor of the U15 team. Yes, none of this means that USWNT games are not exciting to watch and a money making endeavor for US soccer. What I do not believe is that you know any of the FC Dallas boys, and if you did, you are lying about what was a very fun and enjoyable day.
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:45 AM
 
236 posts, read 70,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
Yes I was. If the US U15 team played the USWNT, I agree that it would be a lopsided game in favor of the U15 team. Yes, none of this means that USWNT games are not exciting to watch and a money making endeavor for US soccer. What I do not believe is that you know any of the FC Dallas boys, and if you did, you are lying about what was a very fun and enjoyable day.
Well you would be wrong and my son is an 03 who played against Pino for years. I realize you have no clue what I am probably saying but if you actually were there and knew this you would know who Pino is.

While I have no issue with the USWMT they couldn't beat my son's high school team. We are a local Dallas team that ended up this year ranked #1 in the state (or #2 depending on the rankings) and #8 in the nation. In other words they aren't as exciting as a high school team.
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRockwell View Post
Well you would be wrong and my son is an 03 who played against Pino for years. I realize you have no clue what I am probably saying but if you actually were there and knew this you would know who Pino is.

While I have no issue with the USWMT they couldn't beat my son's high school team. We are a local Dallas team that ended up this year ranked #1 in the state (or #2 depending on the rankings) and #8 in the nation. In other words they aren't as exciting as a high school team.
If you are talking about Coach Pino, yes I know who he is. And you are entitled to your opinion, but whether a top ten national team of 17 - 18 year old males could beat the USWNT has nothing to do with how exciting they are to watch when playing against other strong national women's teams. Its insane to suggest otherwise. the Mens national team would destroy your son's team, but I bet his HS games were incredible to watch. With just as much excitement as watching Mexico and the USMNT play.

I watch probably 400-500 youth games per year including reffing, coaching, watching my kids, the tourneys and all the home club games I wonder around each week. I watched a U14 girls national semifinal last year between a NJ club and a midwest club I think from Missouri that was maybe the best youth women's game I have ever seen. Soccer is an incredible sport to watch. If you are watching the USWNT destroy a Thailand team, it quickly becomes boring and far less enjoyable. But if you are watching the English women's team and the USWNT, it is incredible. If you are watching great soccer, it is incredible.

The last match I got to see outdoors was the men's national championship down in Cary, NC. The two teams, Georgetown and Virginia are so close to each other it had more of a rivalry feel than an NCAA championship. This game was tied with under 4 minutes remaining and went to PKs. After five for fives by both squads, we got two more exchanges before Georgetown won it when their keeper made an amazing save. If you think this game was not exciting even though either of these squads would get lit up by the US National U19 team, you don't understand soccer.

Watching any two teams with great skill play this game against each other, anyone who thinks it is less exciting because some other team could beat one or both of them, well, you just do not enjoy soccer the way I do. I watch soccer every day of my life. I can tell you that I watch high school games that I enjoy far more than some world cup matches. Soccer is life, it truly is the beautiful game. I am sorry that you do not see it this way for the best women. Watching the best women play this beautiful game is just as exciting as watching the best men play. I love this game no matter how old, or the sex of the players on the pitch. In other words, I bet watching your son's game was as exciting as watching any game with better players. Because that is what soccer is.

Women play incredible games. I pay to see them, long with thousands of others. If you choose not to, fine. But the revenue stream is clear, WoSo is enjoyed by millions.
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Old 04-28-2020, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Tejas
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Exciting has nothing to do with pay and quality. They dont have the quality they shouldnt be paid the same. I watch low level football and its exciting, they dont deserve to earn the same as a Liverpool players. Its just how life is. The womens game is only really exciting as far as youre going to get lots of goals. Why lots of goals ? The quality is poor.
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Old 04-28-2020, 05:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
Exciting has nothing to do with pay and quality. They dont have the quality they shouldnt be paid the same. I watch low level football and its exciting, they dont deserve to earn the same as a Liverpool players. Its just how life is. The womens game is only really exciting as far as youre going to get lots of goals. Why lots of goals ? The quality is poor.
Wrong on all fronts.
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:17 PM
 
236 posts, read 70,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
Wrong on all fronts.
Actually it is correct on all fronts. I watch my son's basketball team when they were 7 years old win a game 2-0. it was damn exciting as balls just fell off the rim for both teams. The quality was terrible. It was more exciting than watching the Lakers blow someone out by 30.

I fully support these women to get every $ they can. Negotiate it. If the pay they offer isn't good enough then leave or don't accept. The USWMT women's game is about the same quality as 14 year old boys. They can't beat good 15 year old boys. They absolutely can beat 13 year old boys.
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Old 04-29-2020, 06:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CHRockwell View Post
Actually it is correct on all fronts. I watch my son's basketball team when they were 7 years old win a game 2-0. it was damn exciting as balls just fell off the rim for both teams. The quality was terrible. It was more exciting than watching the Lakers blow someone out by 30.

I fully support these women to get every $ they can. Negotiate it. If the pay they offer isn't good enough then leave or don't accept. The USWMT women's game is about the same quality as 14 year old boys. They can't beat good 15 year old boys. They absolutely can beat 13 year old boys.
Actually its not. Your post is even more wrong since it appears you do not even understand the fee dispute and what has happened. They do not play any boys, so who care if they would beat them in some non-existing game. They play women. If you cannot enjoy women playing great soccer, don't watch. The ratings are great without you watching.
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Old 04-29-2020, 07:25 AM
 
236 posts, read 70,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
Actually its not. Your post is even more wrong since it appears you do not even understand the fee dispute and what has happened. They do not play any boys, so who care if they would beat them in some non-existing game. They play women. If you cannot enjoy women playing great soccer, don't watch. The ratings are great without you watching.
What you fail to comprehend is every single person in this country (other than soldiers and government workers) are free to negotiate their pay. I actually do watch since it is usually country based games and I enjoy it but I understand what it is.

A little lesson for you. My kids years ago asked for an allowance. They asked what they need to do to get their allowance. I told them to figure out how much they wanted and I would let them know. They asked how much they could ask for and I said any amount you want. They said $1 million. I told them no problem. Go find a way to make me $2 million and your allowance will be $1 million. This is no different. These women can ask for any amount they want and if they can make more than that amount they will find someone to pay them any amount they want.

Oh and actually I am not wrong as the market does not lie. The reason they are paid less is because they are of lesser quality and that has a trickle down effect.
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Old 04-30-2020, 06:26 AM
 
892 posts, read 880,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRockwell View Post
What you fail to comprehend is every single person in this country (other than soldiers and government workers) are free to negotiate their pay. I actually do watch since it is usually country based games and I enjoy it but I understand what it is.

A little lesson for you. My kids years ago asked for an allowance. They asked what they need to do to get their allowance. I told them to figure out how much they wanted and I would let them know. They asked how much they could ask for and I said any amount you want. They said $1 million. I told them no problem. Go find a way to make me $2 million and your allowance will be $1 million. This is no different. These women can ask for any amount they want and if they can make more than that amount they will find someone to pay them any amount they want.

Oh and actually I am not wrong as the market does not lie. The reason they are paid less is because they are of lesser quality and that has a trickle down effect.

Wow, you really do not know anything about this. There is no market for a national team. It is what it is. There is only one team, they have 100 percent control over the team as a monopoly. Thereis no competitor that Alex Morgan can go to.

Lets use Hope Solo as an example. I actually despise her as a person and am glad that she is no longer playing. But, lets look at it from a market analysis. At the end of 2015 she was given every award for the best goalkeeper in the world. She was universally considered the best. No one who watched soccer could consider any other player anywhere near her in terms of keeper play. She also had some issues off the field with her phone being hacked and very personal pictures taken by her husband were put out in the public by criminals. None of this had to do with her soccer. Her husband and her got into a messy separation and there were domestic violence arrests with all charges eventually dropped against them both. then a few months after her last best keeper award, she made some comments about fear from teh Zika virus leading to the olympics, Finally, after an embarrassing loss, she was critical of the team that beat the US for their choice to play keep away once they secured the lead. Because of these things, the US chose to not do business with the best goalkeeper in the world. There is nothing she can do about it. She can't play for another country as she has no connection with any other under the FIFA rules. She simple is screwed and cannot play anywhere. There is no marketplace. Its a take it or leave it monopoly. If the national team says, we are going to give our male players x dollars, but also a team physician, access to training facilities, 8 coaches, never play on turf, provide all equipment, and then we tell the female players you get 4 coaches, have to play almost 2 times as many games per year, play on turf fields that college athletic associations have banned play on, and we will pay you half of x, you have to do it because I say so. You really just do not understand this do you.

But I actually love your example. I wish US Soccer would say to these women, we will pay you 50% of the revenue that you generate. That is about how the NFL dies it. The secret, the woman make far less than 50% of the revenue they generate. They argue its under 20% and the men get closer to 50%. A little lesson for you.

These women cannot ask for any amount they want. There is no one else that is legally allowed to pay them anything. They are US National Team Players. England cannot pay them, Holland cannot pay them, France cannot pay them. Your market analysis is a joke. I think you are under the misunderstanding that it is the women's professional league that argues it should be paid equally. It is not. A market based analysis requires that there actually be a market. there is none here. It is a monopoly.

The US Women are simply saying that because it is a single payer system, all the revenue should go into a pot and be divided equally, or at least the player share should be equal. At the Olympics each gold medal winner for the US (male or female, huge TV revenue producing gymnastics or not televised cross country women's skiing) get $37,500. During the regular season, athletes get what they get in their professional sports. The men's hockey players and basketball players earning far more in their sports than the swimmers, even Michael Phelps, do in theirs. The later is marketplace based income. No one in this debate is arguing for that because it simply is not applicable. But the $37,500 is the argument here since it awards only national team performance equally. US Soccer is forced to do it in the olympics, but not at any other point. That is all they ask, to be treated equally in a non-competitive market where they out-generate their income in revenue many times over.
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