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Say i was evaluating a private school, to send my kids there. I'd have a preference towards heterosexual teachers who are part of a traditional family unit of some sort. So on some level I can relate to DeMint.
But because we're talking about public schools, because that is part of 'the government', they are (and should be) bound by various rules that protect a homosexual teacher or an unmarried pregnant teacher against workplace discrimination.
I'm torn, because I truly feel that it is NOT the government's role to encourage a particular lifestyle... yet most of what i have seen indicates that American teachers are (as a generalization) actively discouraging traditional ideas.
Le roi,
I appreciate your honesty.
The problem I have with preserving the traditional ideas is that at the core of that value system is prejudice against those who do not conform to it. This does not mean that I do not value the traditional family (meaning married man and woman with children), I do, I just do not devalue non-traditional families.
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PawleysDude posted: Will somebody please explain to me what LookinForMayberry said?
I was having trouble deciphering that also. I was hoping she would come back and clarify. I wasn't sure if she was suggesting that following the eightfold path would allow us all to be unaffected by DeMint or if she was referring to Taoist flow (wu wei) (AKA "go with the flow"), the action of non action. Either way DeMint is not "the enlightened one" so lack of analysis or action is not an option IMO.
I'm torn, because I truly feel that it is NOT the government's role to encourage a particular lifestyle... yet most of what i have seen indicates that American teachers are (as a generalization) actively discouraging traditional ideas.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Do you have any support for this?
I did not live in South Carolina 6 years ago, and apparently was not paying too much attention to what was going on down here. Because of that I was shocked to hear this morning about DeMint's comments in 2004 regarding gay and unmarried pregnant women teaching in public schools and his recent reference to those comments. I am just curious as to how many DeMint supporters agree with him?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Do you have any support for this?
i think it is fair to claim that educators "push" their ideologies on students, not maliciously, maybe not even intentionally, but frequently. i also think it is fair to claim that teachers tend to be liberal. i don't know what you mean by support, i don't have any studies to provide.
i'm not real clear on what demint's comments were, exactly. the article did a poor job of providing them in context.
i think it is fair to claim that educators "push" their ideologies on students, not maliciously, maybe not even intentionally, but frequently. i also think it is fair to claim that teachers tend to be liberal. i don't know what you mean by support, i don't have any studies to provide.
i'm not real clear on what demint's comments were, exactly. the article did a poor job of providing them in context.
I know that this is conventional wisdom, but I don't know that I'm buying. The role of an educator is to attempt to train students to think and to learn.
As for teachers being more liberal, I guess that's probably true, nationwide. I'd say that if people are well educated and fully capable, but still opt to make 35k a year in a public school, they're not exactly in it for the money, so the profession has its natural bias towards the bleeding hearts.
However, having attended Elementary, Middle, and High school in Sumter, I can honestly say that I never had a teacher who was openly gay, and I rarely had a teacher who was openly political... and even then it wasn't always liberal. I had at least 3 teachers who were VERY vocally conservative, including one when I was all of 11 years old.
This is South Carolina. We need the best teachers available, because, and this may come as a shock... we're not doing so well with the education thing.
I'd be in support of filling our schools with gay, pregnant, tap-dancing Eskimo (Oops! Inuit!) lion tamers if it would improve the quality of SC schools.
i'm not real clear on what demint's comments were, exactly. the article did a poor job of providing them in context.
le roi, here is a transcript from a Meet the Press interview with Tim Russet when he questioned Jim DeMint on the subject. I am not sure if I am allowed to paste the portion of the conversation which references it. I will give it a try. I have also included a link but you have to scroll down and click on "show more text" and then scroll way down to towards the bottom.
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From Meet the Press 10/17/2004:
MR. RUSSERT: In a previous debate, Mr. DeMint, you were asked a question, and this was your answer about teaching in South Carolina.
(Videotape, S. Carolina Educational TV Debate, October 3, 2004):
REP. DeMINT: If a person is a practicing homosexual, they should not be teaching in our schools.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: Why not?
REP. DeMINT: Well, I apologize for that remark, because I really regret distracting from the main issues of this debate.
MR. RUSSERT: Well, do you apologize because it's a distraction or do you apologize for what you said?
REP. DeMINT: No, I apologize for distracting from the real issues of this debate. This is...
MR. RUSSERT: So do you--wait, but let's clarify. Do you believe that gays should be able to teach in the public schools of South Carolina?
REP. DeMINT: I believe that's a local school board issue and the voters of South Carolina want me to talk about how they're going to be safer, how they're going to have better jobs, how I'm going to save Social Security.
MR. RUSSERT: But you said they shouldn't be. And the Republican Party in South Carolina's platform...
REP. DeMINT: Right.
MR. RUSSERT: ...said they should not. Do you believe that gays should be able to teach in the public schools?
REP. DeMINT: I believe that's a local school board issue.
MR. RUSSERT: Well, two issues that you may have to vote on. Do you believe that gay people should be able to adopt children?
REP. DeMINT: Adoption is one of the issues I've pushed for in the Congress and anything else. In fact, I was inducted into the National Adoption Hall of Fame for my work on adoption. The states regulate adoption and they need to make decisions about who's going to adopt, but I'm going to continue to promote families through adoption.
MR. RUSSERT: But do you think gays should be able to adopt?
REP. DeMINT: I believe children should grow up in a family with a father and a mother. But I think the state should decide who are going to be those families.
MR. RUSSERT: Should gays have federal benefits, gay couples?
REP. DeMINT: I think everyone should be treated equally. What people do in their private lives is their private life and I don't think any--I've been an employer for years. I've never asked questions about sexuality and I don't plan to start now.
MR. RUSSERT: You also, when asked about your comments about gay teachers, said this: "I would have given the same answer when asked if a single woman, who was pregnant and living with her boyfriend, should be hired to teach my third-grade children." Do you also still believe that, that a single mom should not be a teacher in South Carolina schools?
REP. DeMINT: I believe that's a local school board issue. And, Tim, I was answering as a dad who's put lots of children in the hands of teachers and I answered with my heart. And I should just say, again, I apologize that distracted from the real debate.
MR. RUSSERT: But you apologize for distracting but are you apologizing to gay teachers or to single mom teachers?
REP. DeMINT: No. I'm apologizing for talking about a local school board issue when the voters want us to talk about how we're going to make them safer, win the war on terror, how we're going to create jobs, how we're going to fix our health-care system. And these are things I've worked on in the Congress and that's what I plan to do in the Senate.
MR. RUSSERT: Do you think that non-citizens should be teaching in South Carolina schools?
REP. DeMINT: I think that's up to our state superintendent. I know that we brought in thousands of teachers from other countries. That's a decision my opponent has made, and I think that should be a state decision who's teaching in the schools.
MR. RUSSERT: But you're making judgments about gay people or about single moms and, in effect, disqualifying them. Are you certain that you never had a gay teacher?
REP. DeMINT: Listen, I have my personal beliefs, Tim, but I honestly believe that the teachers should be hired by local school districts. They should be making the decisions on who should be in the classroom.
MR. RUSSERT: But don't the voters have a right to know about whether or not you still stand by comments you made in the campaign? Do you stand by your comments?
REP. DeMINT: I apologized for answering a local school board question.
MR. RUSSERT: No, you're apologizing for the distraction, but it's a simple question. Do you believe that gays should be able to teach in South Carolina schools?
REP. DeMINT: Well, Tim...
MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe that single moms should be able to teach?
REP. DeMINT: It's a very simple answer. I think the local school board should make that issue, not Senate can--I mean, make that decision.
MR. RUSSERT: But you didn't think that a month ago when you answered the question.
REP. DeMINT: And I apologize for that, Tim.
MR. RUSSERT: For answering the question?
REP. DeMINT: Yeah, for distracting from the real thing.
MR. RUSSERT: But not for the substance of your comments.
REP. DeMINT: Tim, who hires teachers should be decided by local school boards.
le roi, here is a transcript from a Meet the Press interview with Tim Russet when he questioned Jim DeMint on the subject.
Here's a shortened version of the interview for those who don't want to read the entire thing.
DeMint: "Tim, I believe that there is too much government intrusion in our lives. And by that I mean that the federal government is intruding on a local government's ability to openly discriminate against those who aren't white, heterosexual, evangelical Protestants."
This is South Carolina. We need the best teachers available, because, and this may come as a shock... we're not doing so well with the education thing.
I'd be in support of filling our schools with gay, pregnant, tap-dancing Eskimo (Oops! Inuit!) lion tamers if it would improve the quality of SC schools.
Thumbs up just doesn't seem to be enough. We need one of those clapping emoticons.
well, i'm not an ultraconservative. i'm playing devil's advocate here, mainly because i dealt with a lot of prfessors in college whom i felt showed some mild bias against anyone who had the gall to argue against their egalitarian feminist utopia.
teachers are role models, and a nontrivial number of people in South Carolina think that homosexuals and single unwed moms are poor role models. (personally, i think that homosexuals make just fine role models, it is the single unwed moms that would concern me more, if it were my kids.)
what if instead of these two groups, it was ex-felons we thought shouldn't be teaching? would we still call it discrimination? do we have standards at all, and if so, do we as a state have some self-determination as to what those standards should be? or not?
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This is South Carolina. We need the best teachers available, because, and this may come as a shock... we're not doing so well with the education thing.
I'd be in support of filling our schools with gay, pregnant, tap-dancing Eskimo (Oops! Inuit!) lion tamers if it would improve the quality of SC schools.
Of course we need the best teachers we can get. i'd say that both sides of this discussion could agree on that. where the disagreement seems to lie, is how we determine "best".
well, i'm not an ultraconservative. i'm playing devil's advocate here, mainly because i dealt with a lot of prfessors in college whom i felt showed some mild bias against anyone who had the gall to argue against their egalitarian feminist utopia.
Are we talking about professors? Or elementary/secondary teachers? Because these are very different crowds. I don't know if the anecdote holds.
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teachers are role models, and a nontrivial number of people in South Carolina think that homosexuals and single unwed moms are poor role models. (personally, i think that homosexuals make just fine role models, it is the single unwed moms that would concern me more, if it were my kids.)
what if instead of these two groups, it was ex-felons we thought shouldn't be teaching? would we still call it discrimination? do we have standards at all, and if so, do we as a state have some self-determination as to what those standards should be? or not?
Personally, I could give a rip how nontrivial numbers of people in South Carolina think, because there was a time when nontrivial numbers of South Carolinians thought that black people were poor role models. There are nontrivial numbers of people who think all kinds of things. I don't think that teachers need to share ANYTHING about their home-lives, personally. There are books to be read and math to be done.
These AREN'T ex-felons. These are people who have broken no law.
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Of course we need the best teachers we can get. i'd say that both sides of this discussion could agree on that. where the disagreement seems to lie, is how we determine "best".
Focusing more on their ability to educate and less on their personal lives is a good way to begin.
I've had it with the gay-bashing. I'm tired of insinuations that gay people are somehow less safe for children to be around than other people. Or that they are poor role models. I could introduce you to more than a few gay couples who totally defy that logic. They're caring, loving, committed, and WOULD be some of the more stable married folks I knew (and great parents, to boot) if they were given the option.
I am straight, myself, but I get sick of people protesting homosexuality just because they don't like it. You are NOT guaranteed the right to comfort in this land of ours.
So I know that you're not some ultra-conservative boogeyman, and I apologize for venting a bit, but these asinine issues are EXACTLY what keeps me from taking the Republican Party seriously. I have plenty of economic concerns about the Democrats and a general distaste for their CONSTANT equivocating, but as long as Republicans like DeMint stay FASCINATED with everyone else's bedroom activity, we're deprived of true party choice.
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Either way DeMint is not "the enlightened one" 
so lack of analysis or action is not an option IMO.
Thumbs up just doesn't seem to be enough. We need one of those clapping emoticons. 
