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My problem with these proposed laws are its a bunch of men, middle age or older, proposing these laws that will never know what it’s like to be in a woman’s or LGBT persons shoes. These men will never what it’s like to have someone impregnate them without consent or possible loss of life to give birth. These men have never been raped by someone or a family member at a young age and impregnate them. These men have never been harassed, berated, insulted, or bullied for liking something outside of what has been considered the norm for so long. Sometimes all LGBT people look forward to is having support from people, especially their government, and living a long life with their partner happily. I wish they’d leave these issues alone and in the past and move forward to more pressing issues.
Just playin devil’s advocate here, but it’s not the woman’s body but the person inside of it that’s affected. The question is more of a moral question than a religious one.
Perception for sure.
I just think for a bunch of old men to sit around discussing it, while telling the government to stay out of their business, is the ultimate hypocrisy.
My problem with these proposed laws are its a bunch of men, middle age or older, proposing these laws that will never know what it’s like to be in a woman’s or LGBT persons shoes. These men will never what it’s like to have someone impregnate them without consent or possible loss of life to give birth. These men have never been raped by someone or a family member at a young age and impregnate them. These men have never been harassed, berated, insulted, or bullied for liking something outside of what has been considered the norm for so long. Sometimes all LGBT people look forward to is having support from people, especially their government, and living a long life with their partner happily. I wish they’d leave these issues alone and in the past and move forward to more pressing issues.
50 percent of the babies that are aborted are female. Some of the babies that are aborted would grow up to be LGBT if they were allowed to live. It seems to me if you care about females and LGBT, you wouldn't want to support something that deprives them of their life. It doesn't make any sense that some people try to make out pro-life people as monsters.
Also, many women oppose abortion. It isn't accurate to characterize opposition to abortion as male only.
Most abortions don't involve pregnancies that resulted from rape or possible loss of life of the mother if she gave birth. We can have different policies for different situations.
I would think anybody who has no problem with abortion would not want other people to sign them up for a similar procedure. There is significant evidence the babies feel pain during the abortion procedure.
I don't understand what is surprising about pro life politicians pushing for restrictions on abortion. They are supposed to represent their voters. Most countries have more restrictive abortion laws than the US.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 02-26-2018 at 05:31 PM..
I just think for a bunch of old men to sit around discussing it, while telling the government to stay out of their business, is the ultimate hypocrisy.
I don't think the people you are calling hypocrites ever said that people should be allowed to do whatever they want to somebody else.
I assume that you don't have a problem with government making murder, rape, theft and other acts that harm other people illegal. The people you call hypocrites also support these acts being illegal too but I assume you don't call them hypocritical for that.
Regarding the gay marriage issue, gay marriage was voted down in several blue states to include California and Mass. when it was a state referendum issue before the Supreme Court ruling. I get you have some kind of disdain for people in the Upstate of SC but there are anti-gay marriage people all over the country. It doesn't make much sense you are trying to single out the Upstate especially given it appears you live in Texas now...surely there are people in the big state of Texas who are also anti-gay marriage.
There is disagreement over that issue in both of the major political parties and it is more of a religious and generational issue than GOP vs Democrat issue. Both the Clintons was anti-gay marriage at one point and Obama was in 2008 at least in his campaign rhetoric. Bill Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act in the 1990s which denied federal recognition of same sex marriage.
WHenever you get the urge to make opposition to gay marriage something unique to the Upstate of SC, check out the handy timeline of same sex marriage provided by Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli..._United_States
States all over the country on there. Red states, blue states, rural states, heavily populated states.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 02-26-2018 at 06:47 PM..
I just think for a bunch of old men to sit around discussing it, while telling the government to stay out of their business, is the ultimate hypocrisy.
Truth be told if the government actually stayed out of everybody’s business it would be complete anarchy.
No need for child protection services. If somebody wants to neglect their kids that’s their business. It’s not bothering anybody else right?
When you prove when life begins, we can talk. Otherwise, it's never getting settled.
Ziggy100, talk to your friends on the right. I used to be a card carrying Republican. In fact, I've never voted for a Dem for President. But the hypocrisy of the right when it comes to women's reproduction is bothersome to me. Enough so, that I no longer am registered as a Republican nor do I donate. Otherwise, your post is silly.
ClemVegas, why you feel the need to talk about old politics is beyond me. A lot has changed since then. Especially the majority opinion in the country. American's in favor of gay marriage rights is now over 60%. I know my attitude changed completely regarding the issue. And the USSC pretty much made the issue moot.
And yes, I do live in Texas right now. I've lived in 7 states and tend to move frequently. SC will always be home.
When you prove when life begins, we can talk. Otherwise, it's never getting settled.
Ziggy100, talk to your friends on the right. I used to be a card carrying Republican. In fact, I've never voted for a Dem for President. But the hypocrisy of the right when it comes to women's reproduction is bothersome to me. Enough so, that I no longer am registered as a Republican nor do I donate. Otherwise, your post is silly.
ClemVegas, why you feel the need to talk about old politics is beyond me. A lot has changed since then. Especially the majority opinion in the country. American's in favor of gay marriage rights is now over 60%. I know my attitude changed completely regarding the issue. And the USSC pretty much made the issue moot.
And yes, I do live in Texas right now. I've lived in 7 states and tend to move frequently. SC will always be home.
I think it's odd that an old man is so concerned with women's reproduction either way.
I think we all have to admit that this issue is more complicated than we'd like to think. Without that premiss, there is no hope of finding common-ground.
Most abortions are not the same as murder. That has to be acknowledged upfront. Even if you're anti-abortions, it's ok to admit that they are different from murder in many regards--there are questions about the validity of the lost life as well as special circumstances that almost never happen in a typical homicide (increased health risks to both parties, for example).
I know to say the words "validity of life" is not exactly kosher, but there is a huge grey area regarding what is life and what isn't. Some believe that wearing a condom or masturbating is a form of murder. Some believe that an abortion is not ok, but the morning after pill is fine. Or that an abortion is only ok if the woman in question was 'virginal'. Or that an abortion is ok if the pregnancy resulted from a rape...but then we have to define rape. And then we have to put more raped women on trial, furthering the campaign against coming forward that has always plagued society (which, by the way, calls question to the validity of statistics quoted earlier about the reasons for abortions.)
We also can't assume that everyone who is pro-life is anti-women's rights. They might value women's rights quite a bit and struggle with this issue because of that.
And we can't assume that everyone who is pro-choice is pro-abortions. They might value the sanctity of life and struggle with this issue because of that.
I know this sounds wishy-washy, but I think acknowledging the complexity of the situation would alleviate a lot of anger on both sides.
It doesn't make sense to argue that people are anti women rights for being pro life given 50 percent of the aborted babies are female.
There is no hypocrisy in being consistently pro life for the born and the unborn.
I'm not sure how a person can have seen an ultrasound and think the unborn baby is not alive.
The majority of the aborted unborn babies have all the proofs of life....heart beat, respiratory movement, nervous system, digestive system, brain waves, etc. It doesn't make much sense to believe the baby will feel no pain if he or she has a nervous system and brain waves.
I also don't understand this notion that a man, especially an old man, does not have the right to express a pro-life view. That is identity politics. There is no such thing as reproduction and babies without men.
Many people oppose restrictions even on partial birth abortions. There was legislation a few years ago that would allow abortion doctors to finish the job after birth in the event of a botched abortion. It difficult to believe a majority of people would support something so ghoulish.
The irony of this issue is that none of the pro-choice people would be here to share that viewpoint if their parents had aborted them. A lot of people are born because pro life people were able to talk the parents out of a decision to abort them.
Life is the most important civil right. If you look at all the oppressive regimes in history, the consistent thing about them is there was no respect for life.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 02-27-2018 at 05:24 PM..
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