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My friend, It is a fact that the books of the prophets were written long before Jesus set foot on earth. That is not under debate. For you to argue against the prophecies, you would have to prove that Jesus Christ was a made up person that never existed.
Actually, no. I'm not the one making the claims. You are. I'm simply saying I don't believe Jesus ever existed. There is no evidence of his existence. You're asking me to prove he never existed, yet, you can't provide any evidence that he did.
It is true that the Bible was written by men. However, it is impossible for these men to predict the future in such detail that the Bible has. Only God knows the specific future. THEREFORE, the detailed prophecies show that the men that wrote the Bible were inspired by God.
Nostradamus "predicted" things too. What's your point?
Anybody who observes human behavior can predict future occurences. Humans do human things.
Like I said before God created time, and he is outside of it. He is not affected by time. He is the author of time.
Asserting things does not make it so. Please use logic for once. To write, to walk, to create, to love are all verbs that denote an action. This implies a before and after. The inherent contradiction is that a god outside of time wouldn't be subject to such limitations.
man1:there are 2 men, each one is taller than the other
man2: that can't be. its a contradictory statement
man1:no it isn't
man2:um yes it is
man1: i told you no it isn't
man2: but logically either one man is taller than the other or they are both the same size
man1: no, both are taller than each other
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Originally Posted by scooterBJK
Do we have free will, absolutely. God, being all knowing, knows exactly what choice we will make and what will happen, which blows my mind because before he created us he knew that He would have to die for our sins. That's love.
Its Moderator cut: inappropriate language stupid is what i think. God sacrificed herself to free humans from something she herself created. Remember shes omniscient? this whole thing is just a huge act of masochism
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Originally Posted by scooterBJK
I am not trying to give you a sermon, nor am I trying to threaten you.
This is the typical denial method. Look a page worth of ramblings mixed with bible about scriptures is preaching
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Originally Posted by scooterBJK
I am answering your questions with what I know to be true.
No, preaching in forums is just an excuse not to answer questions, I ask about a logical contradiction and i get preached at passages involving the need to not question things
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Originally Posted by scooterBJK
What use would God have for love? He is love. He made humans so that he could love us and we could love Him back. He also asks us to love others as we love ourselves. I am telling you these things out of love, not so that I can get kicks for being right or to look at the words I write and think i'm really smart or to bring glory to myself; God deserves all of the glory and praise, and so be it.
Well now you are giving me an excuse to drop all this, the "im always right because i know it" attitude has always lead to disaster.
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Originally Posted by scooterBJK
God wrote the Bible through his spirit, men simply wrote down what God told them to write.
No, men claiming to have spoken to their god wrote them.
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Originally Posted by scooterBJK
How do I know the Bible to be true? The prophecies and the evidence.
You mean like the prophecies confirmed within the bible? Holy crap!
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Originally Posted by scooterBJK
In the Bible there is a story of God parting the Red Sea so the Israelites, the people that had faith in Him, could escape from Egypt. The Egyptians attacked through the parted sea and after every Israelite was out of there, God made the sea swallow up the Egyptians.
There is a 3 by 11 mile section in the Red Sea where the Israelites crossed where there are Chariot wheels and Chariots and other Egyptian things.
I've heard this before but sorry between magic followed by 3 million jews going in circles around an inhospitable desert for 40 years or ship transporting chariots having a leak, i think the later is more likely to have happened by miles
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Originally Posted by scooterBJK
What will we do for eternity? It will be spent in one of two places in which each human has a choice to make for themselves which will determine their destination. Heaven = eternal joy, Hell = eternal suffering. I am not threatening you, I am simply answering your question my friend.
You haven't answered my question and im getting the feeling that you are purposely avoiding them by means of giving out tangents. Eternal joy in heaven alright, but this goes on for infinity. Whatever we do that causes joy will at one point be done again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.
Are you starting to get my point?
How do you go about this problem without making existence after death resemble a repeating circle?
Last edited by Alpha8207; 03-28-2008 at 07:56 AM..
Nostradomus predicted vague prophecies that only handful came true.
I am claiming that of the Bible's prophecies none have been wrong up to this date.
Thus, the detailed errorless fulfilled prophecies only shows the true author of the Bible - God.
Then why didn't God clearly define what would happen in the future, and clearly show people how to avoid catastrophic events? Why wouldn't he teach the people writing for him how to create vaccines, purify water, and other technological feats that would have reduced suffering?
People wrote accounts of history and others wrote stories... then people came together and selected which works fit their requirements and published it as the new testament. I won't dispute that it has some wonderful teachings... and if you read it and don't take it literally, it provides one means to a path of enlightenment... but you can't really use the Bible to prove anything spiritual.
Actually, no. I'm not the one making the claims. You are. I'm simply saying I don't believe Jesus ever existed. There is no evidence of his existence. You're asking me to prove he never existed, yet, you can't provide any evidence that he did.
If there is no evidence that Jesus ever existed, then why do most historians and scholars believe he existed?
If there is no evidence that Jesus ever existed, then why do most historians and scholars believe he existed?
Because many historians accept the Bible as evidence because it is considered a book written by people who were around at the time these stories were supposedly taking place. I don't.
If he did live, he was just a person who tried to convert people to believe in the god he believed in. Like Matthew and Paul and the rest of the apostles. They were similar to the Mohammeds and Bhuddas and whatever else prophets, apostles, preachers...of the time. I believe he was probably very charismatic and left an impression on people and especially on those who were poor and searching for a better life, the slaves, etc.,...He gave a way out of their suffering on earth.. a life afterwards that would take away all their pain and something to look forward to. All they had to do was believe and most were more than willing to do so. They just made his life something out of a fairytale, born from a virgin and a god...you can't beat that.
Here is a question that I like to think about sometimes:
We observe a universe full of stuff. Stuff here is defined as matter, energy, anti-matter, dark matter, time, etc. etc. Basically everything.
What is the origin of stuff?
It seems there are a few possible answers.
1. There actually is no stuff and never has been. It is an illusion. This cannot be correct because if something, in this case me, can ask the question then at the very least the asker ,me, must exist. Also if it is an illusion then the illusion must exist and that would count as stuff. In addition a universe completely devoid of stuff would be just one possibility in an extremely large, maybe infinite, number of possibilities. It would be unlikely for a universe to be completely empty. Based on this, I think we can rule this option out.
2. There has always been stuff. This option doesn't seem very satisfying to me because there is no starting point. How can this be? If the past is infinite then how can we find ourselves in the present? Time must be measurable by some smallest amount, i.e. plank time. But if there are measurable units of time there must be some first unit at which the clock began in order for us to observe ourselves at some point on the continuum of time, i.e. the present. Maybe time is circular and by moving forward in time one can get to the past. But this still does not explain why we observe ourselves at a particular point on the circle of time. So again if time can be measured in units then there must have been an original starting unit, and if it isn't then how is it that we observe ourselves at a particular point in time.
3. There was nothing, then for some reason there was something. All the evidence so far seems to suggest that this is the correct explanation. But it introduces a new question, how can nothing give rise to something?
Have I missed something or made some error in my analysis here? I welcome everyone's comments.
Has any one ever tried weighing their perceptions.. their memories.. thoughts.. feelings.. and dreams..?
How could we weigh such as this.. ?
If we cut open the brain.. could we isolate a childhood memory.. for inspection.. ?
Can any of us prove that all our memories actually really happened.. ?
Yet we KNOW they exist.. because we wouldn’t have any sense of the person we are.. with out them.
So.. we might well ask..
Does science have its limits.. when it comes to detecting things.. ?
Then.. something else we could consider is..
Out of our intangible.. perceptions.. memories thoughts.. feelings and dreams.. comes – ACTION.
Is this a case of something coming out of nothing.. ?
Considering that our inner being is intangible.
If not.. what is it.. REALLY..?
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“What is this "I"?
You will, on close introspection, find that what you really mean by "I" is the ground-stuff upon which all experiences are collected.”
Erwin Schroedinger
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So.. let’s say.. if the universe is expanding.. with in a dimension of potential energy.. which.. being potential.. is undetectable..
Then.. doesn’t it follow.. that ACTION can arise from this imaginary source also.. ?
Just as this message didn’t exist.. till I read your thread..
Then.. I just imagined it.. into existence.
IT'S A MIRACLE!!!
Isn't it..?
Something from nothing.
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“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force… We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.”
Max Planck, Father of Quantum Theory
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This Mind is the Matrix of All Matter
