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There is an 11 year old girl who gets in trouble for speaking disrespectfully to grownups. She has done this since age 4 or so, and has always insisted she has no idea what she said that was wrong. She does not seem to be able to hear her own tone of voice, or pick up on the cues of those to whom she is speaking. She refused to look at and say hi to strangers (like a waitress -- in that sort of context) until a few years ago, and even now it's hard to hear her respond to questions asked. out walking a school friend will pass her and smile and say "hi", and she just says "hi" back, in a monotone voice with no smile. But she has a lot of friends, gets invited to sleepovers and parties.
At age 5 she saw a psychologist for a while, who posited the idea of HFA. Things are better in some ways as the years have gone on -- less trouble at school for back-talk last year for the first time. She is warm with her brother, and has shown empathy to special needs kids at school (loved to go and help out in that classroom.) But I would say she is pretty low in the empathy department for her age. She's bright in that she gets deeper meanings in books than most kids her age, and makes connections that others miss, but she is not a super-bright kid (not in gifted and talented class, struggles some with math).
Does his sound like a kid who might have AS or HFA?
Of course I am talking about my own daughter. She seems so foreign to me at times -- I never got in trouble once as a kid. I am empathetic, and do not talk to people disrespectfully, nor does her dad (who likely has AS but he's not her bio dad, oddly enough.)
Yes, it is possible that your daughter has asperger's. You might want to read Temple Grandin's biography or see the movie based on her life (she was actually quite low functioning at 4 years old).
Not picking up social cues is very typical of autistic children. Monotone voices are also fairly typical of this. You may want to look into social skills classes that can teach her about picking up social cues.
You might want to watch Parenthood, btw. The story line for Max is very well done and might give you some insight.
This is the most recent show on hulu.com (I could not get NBC.com to load today) It focuses on another part of the family, but the school scenes with Max are quite interesting. The part on teaching him how to apologize might be of help to you.
Hulu - Parenthood: Nora - Watch the full episode now. (http://www.hulu.com/watch/285085/parenthood-nora#s-p1-so-i0 - broken link)
I dunno if this sounds like HFA, from my experience. My son (dx'ed ASD dr labeled HFA... there is no official dx for HFA in medical language, oddly enough since it is used so often). While it is a spectrum and there are variables all over the map, but disrespect doesn't seem to be a symptom in and of itself. Impulse control, not understanding social cues and staying to one's self are more common along with styming and repetitive behavior. The fact that your daughter 'gets' written stories is another cue it isn't ASD. In the ASD children I know, they cannot get context from stories easily and certainly don't get subtle/complex meanings.
One thing I want to emphasize is ASD doesn't mean a lack of empathy or feelings. My son feels things deeply, much deeper than my nt children. He is affectionate, but on his terms.
When I was a child, I would say whatever popped in my head. I would confront authority and never saw anything 'wrong' with stating my opinion. To say the least, my mouth got me in a lot of trouble. Your daughter's inclination to avoid chit-chat with a waitress can be an indication that she isn't into small talk. Is she able to state factual phrases, like order from the menu with little/no assistance?
Your daughter may just have an independently strong personality (that usually attract many friends/acquaintances) and she doesn't feel the need to play the small talk, facade type of conversations.
I know -- she certainly has a strong personality, and always has.
The empathy thing -- I know that, too, and have read the theories that ASD folks actually have the opposite issue -- too much feeling to be able to handle. She's just a hard nut to crack (the exact words of that psychologist!)
I do know that things are not pleasant in this house due to her attitude, and she does not seem to respond to discipline (taking away privileges, etc). She truly does not seem to understand why she gets in trouble. My parents watched the kids this weekend and the minute we pulled up my parents ran out, my mother in tears due to how awful DD was to her (right before we pulled up, not the whole time). My parents agree that something is "just not right."
Oh goodness. You are describing my 11 year old to a T. I had always thought that as she was younger she was taking cues from her brother who is 12 and has Aspergers. As she's getting older I'm wondering if she's been touched as well.
Side note: Neither of my children have ever responded to discipline. I had taken everything out of their rooms once and they really couldn't have cared less. They ended up playing with their shadows on the wall.
Best of luck to you and your daughter. Keep us updated.
I certainly do not want to pathologize the behavior. I suppose my worst fear is that she is just a brat, devoid of the ability to think about anyone but herself. (It's been a rough few days, lol. I usually have a little more hope than that!)
Heh,not to make light of what's going on, but one can have Asperger's AND still be capable of being bratty! One doesn't preclude the other...something important to remember with any type of special needs. Various disabilities and challenges notwithstanding, kids are kids, and can still be bratty from time to time. Behavior is behavior...there's a function to it, surely, but it's still just behavior.
I would say you may want to look into some assessments...if she has/had typical language development, it's more likely to be Asperger's than other forms of autism (bear in mind that "high functioning" is a very subjective an non-clinical term, and really doesn't mean much, or rather, means different things to different people), but Asperger's is def. a possibility. So, too, are other potential issues, though, so it's difficult to say without formal assessment being done.
Regardless, it looks like those pragmatic gaps (the lack of employing various social skills) should be explored/examined a bit. Also bear in mind that, as mentioned, people with autism spectrum disorders don't necessarily lack empathy, but communicating such abstracts often present challenges. Feeling something and being able to properly communicate (or even identify) what you're feeling are different things.
She has been a very articulate girl since she started talking (at a normal age) but has always had a really hard time talking about feelings. That therapist mentioned the she likely was delayed in some emotional aspects of development.
Right, and there are lots of potential reasons for that particular developmental delay...Asperger's would only be one possibility.
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