Pre-K boy with behavioral issues - decision time for Kindergarten (evaluation, independent)

[TeresaMike]

I just wanted to post an update in how my son is doing, now that he's in first grade. It's amazing how fast time goes by! I see there has been some recent interest.

To recap - I wondered whether to put my son in kindergarten on schedule, as he was socially immature, and struggling with temper tantrums and difficulty transitioning. Ultimately, he had a neuropsych evaluation, and was diagnosed with ADHD (impulsive/hyperactive subtype), social anxiety, and oppositionality. The recommendations were for appropriate use of medication, and cognitive behavior therapy. We started the therapy with cogntive behavior therapist who specialized in working with kids with anxiety and their parents. First my husband and I went weekly for "Parent Child Interaction Therapy", a form of Parent Management Training. Then she began seeing my son one-to-one to work on his anxieties/frustration tolerance. We have been very pleased with the therapy and parenting techniques. The psychiatrist we began seeing felt strongly that oppositional behavior is usually a byproduct of some other issue, such as ADHD or anxiety, and rarely an issue unto itself. Unfortunately, my son did not react well to stimulant medications. In the end, we have used a non-stimulant medication, and it helps a bit with his constant fidgeting/restlessness. We switched psychiatrists recently, and he feels strongly that there is no mood disorder involved, and my son will continue to improve with time and therapy.

As far as school goes, in the end, we decided to have my son begin kindergarten on schedule, as the board of education put a lot of supports into his IEP, such as play therapy, a para in the room, and the inclusion classroom (regular ed teacher, and special ed teacher). We figured that with those things in place, he might do okay in a public classroom. My son did pretty well in kindergarten - great academically, and got help for the social-emotional issues. The issues did not go away, but they felt that due to his academic abilities, he should go into a regular education room with a para for him specifically. So for first grade, he has been in a regular education room with a one-to-one behavioral para. It seems like a good cop/bad cop pairing a little bit - the teacher is kind of old school, and the para is warm but strict. It's mostly working out, although he continues to have his issues (hit another kid once, pushed a kid of the bench once, ran out of the school after having to apologize and thinking he was in trouble). He hasn't had any issues like this since January though - we haven't even gotten a call. While he's doing well, I'm mystified at the school reaction when he has issues - like it's a surprise - isn't this information all over his IEP??? "He kept crying, couldn't calm down" (really, can't imagine why when he had four adults standing around him telling him to calm down!). "If he only would leave the situation and come with me to my office to talk, we could have avoided this whole thing" (ya think?! And if only he didn't have ADHD, anxiety, and oppositionality, this whole thing could have been avoided!). Anywho, aside from those irritations, things have been fine at school. Oh yeah, and I have to go on all field trips, because he had a hard time on one of them. I'm a little worried about summer camp, as he got banned from field trips last year, because he was so reluctant to leave that they were afraid he would get hurt. We're going to a new place this year, and he's a year older and wiser, so hopefully we'll see some growth there.

At home, he's doing better as well. He will sometimes get annoyed and scream at his little brother, but hits very rarely (does better than me and my little brother did!). He's in martial arts (which was shocked to hear about his issues at school, as he's an amazing listener there), and just started boy scouts (one of the best behaved in the group). We just started baseball, and he's doing well. But it wasn't too long ago that he was doing soccer (fall), and refused to participate the moment he wasn't doing well. So we are working hard! And he's working hard, and hopefully every day we'll see improvement.

Sorry this is a bit of a mess, but I just wanted to quickly jot down some of my thoughts. I'm not sorry I started him in kindergarten, but I might be moving to Bergen County, NJ, and the cutoff date for kindergarten is his birthday (Oct 1st), so I might be again facing the question of whether or not to have him repeat first grade. His current teacher says no, because he's academically gifted, and would be bored, but I just don't know.

[Mattie]

I think you will be happy with the services in Bergen County. Some of the school districts have had K-1classes in the past, I'm not sure they still offer them these days, but they were great for the less mature kids. My sister teaches spec. ed in Westwood, and I grew up there.

[TeresaMike]

Hey Mattie - we're thinking of moving to Leonia. I hope they also have services I need there - I really have to call them. It seems like a great town, and it's fairly close to both sides of the family.

[jasper12]

Thank you for the update. Best wishes to you and your family. I think your son is very lucky, and has a great Mom. My son was similar...and he is now in the military, and doing great. He fits in there just perfectly, it is like his OCD, is a gift for him in the military. His ADHD is also a gift, he is always busy, doing different things, he loves it. I can't imagine him working or fitting well in the regular world of work, so this worked out great for us.

[Edwinbrito]

Many teachers need training on how to deal with students with disabilities. Specially on early grades when it is so important to identify any disability.
You can always ask the school to have your child evaluated (it doesn't take a year as they told you. Make the request in writing, and get a lawyer involved. I can tell you if they don't do it, they are liable.
My daughter is dyslexic I had a similar problem. How is he doing at home?
You probably are going to also need to learn some strategies to be able to help him.
Check this video with some strategies: [url]http://youtu.be/X1wRkd7c6lA[/url]


Good luck

[nana053]

The OP is from 2008, the child is now 8, so I imagine the issue has been solved.

[lookingaroundabit]

Hi,
I didn't have time to read through all the posts but was faced with a similar decision a few years ago. My DS is now 8 (in 3rd). He has an end of Aug bday and the cutoff here is Sept 30th. We are in a high achieving SD in NJ where many (if not most all parents) hold back summer bday boys. He had been in Inclusion pre K for two years, the SD recommended he go to K...morning was self contained, afternoon was regular classroom with an aide. I was faced w/decision of sending him or holding him out another year to find a private preK that would take him. I ended up getting private testing done and the dr. recommended we send him to K. The reasoning was, that DS was bright and was academically ready to learn (even though he was well behind in phonics, letter recognition, number skills, etc.) If we held him back, he would become bored, and then more of a behavioral problem as he tended to not deal with younger kids as well. The dr. felt it would be better for him to be on the younger side...therefore the behavior would likely be attributed to 'he is young' and the school could do a better job handling a young kid with a behavior prob, than a kid that was bigger, stronger, older and knew it. I tortured myself for months, consulted many people, teachers, therapists, etc. Another wrinkle was that I had a very hard time finding a PreK that would take him due to his behavioral and other learning issues. So we decided to send him to K.

Now we are 3 years into this little experiment. DS was behind academically when he started and he did catch up in many areas. He is physically behind (shorter) than many of the boys in his class (some are a whole year older) which is not the best for sports or his self esteem or for his socialization with the boys. This is the area that I feel is the biggest impact of the decision to push him forward. Though, he does get along well with many of the girls in the class who think he is cute. He is still academically behind a bit but gets help. However, he is NOT in a situation where he preys on younger, smaller kids nor has he had any behavioral problems that needed to be addressed which is good. I guess another good point with this decision is that we can always hold him back or get him more tutoring if he needs it down the road.

Good luck.

[Netangel334]

I could really use some advice. Like many of you I am at the beginning stages of this with my child. He has been in Private Daycare for about 3 years. This year he began Pre K there. He is having a really hard time with his behavior. Hitting, Spitting, screaming for no reason during nap or circle time. He gets very upset when punished and will cry uncontrollably. At first Prek teachers wanted to handle things by taking away privelages etc. Now they call me to come up and I either remove him and he loses privelages at home or something similar. Nothing is working and they are telling me I have to get help or he will be removed from Pre K. This started at the end of last year and they thought it was because he was getting bored in the younger kids class. Like many others he is really smart and does well when there is a task at hand that he needs to focus on. But when he is done he is done. He completely loses focus and is hard to get back on track. When I ask him why he hits or spits he says it is because "she won't look at me or talk to me." so at first I thought it was just attention seeking behavior since he is in a new class with new kids and teachers. BUt it isn't getting better. My Pediatrician says it is just 4 yr old behavior. The school says it is beyond normal behavior. I don't know where to start. Part of me thinks I should maybe find another preschool and maybe move him back a year. His birday is July first and our cut off is Sept 1st. He was also 8 weeks premature and born to a mom addicted to drugs and with major mental illness. We adopted him at birth. What I don't understand is that he is such a good kid at home. Does great in small play groups at home or at others house, park etc.. He just has issues at Pre K. I don't want him to be labeled as a special needs kids if he is just a little immature and needs more time. I was so embarrassed when I picked him up hearing another Mom telling her kid he couldn't play with my Son because he was a bad influence I dont want to over react and get a neo psych. involved etc..if it is something he will grow out of (Which is what my Pediatrician is leaning toward) but I also don't want to be lazy about it and then send him to Kindergarten and him just be a mess. I am tempted to just pull him and do pre k activities and play dates from home but again I am scared that would do more damage then good..Anyone have any advice. Anyone been through this. I am just lost he is my one and only who just turned 4 in July and I don't want to mess this up.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by Netangel334

I could really use some advice. Like many of you I am at the beginning stages of this with my child. He has been in Private Daycare for about 3 years. This year he began Pre K there. He is having a really hard time with his behavior. Hitting, Spitting, screaming for no reason during nap or circle time. He gets very upset when punished and will cry uncontrollably.

Did anything besides the PreK class change recently. Are all his friends in the 3 year old class. Does he get along best with kids who are younger than he is or older than he is? How is his speech? Is he easily understood when he speaks to the other kids?

Does he nap at home? Many 4 year olds have given up napping. What *can* he do during the nap time - quiet looking at books, if he isn't tired?

Circle time can be difficult for active boys. Is there an aide who might be able to sit with him? Could he be given a job to do that will hold his attention and keep him from bothering other kids? Are some of the other kids provoking him and trying to play with him at circle time?

At first PreK teachers wanted to handle things by taking away privileges etc. Now they call me to come up and I either remove him and he loses privileges at home or something similar. Nothing is working and they are telling me I have to get help or he will be removed from PreK.

Since losing privileges is not working, the teachers need to find a different way of controlling his behavior.

1. They need to assign a one on one aide for a period of time. This aide's responsibility would be to stay close and stop the hitting or spitting before it starts. S/he should block his hands and say stop firmly, but not angrily.

2. They need to acknowledge the behavior and help him label his emotions. Some books are good for this and you can read them at home. Hands are NOT for Hitting is one that helps by substituting something a child can do with his hands instead of hitting. They might try having him draw a picture of why he is angry. You can do that at home as well.

3. They and you need to tell and show him what he *can* do. For example when he spits, he could be directed to go spit in the sink. When he hits, he could be given a small drum or asked to clap instead.

4. The teachers need to reward appropriate behavior even if he is only doing it for a few minutes. A sticker for sitting quietly at circle might work. You need to find out his currency. Rewards are always better than punishment although you have to be careful to phase them out.


This started at the end of last year and they thought it was because he was getting bored in the younger kids class. Like many others he is really smart and does well when there is a task at hand that he needs to focus on. But when he is done he is done. He completely loses focus and is hard to get back on track.

Perhaps he needs to know what is coming next. A picture schedule can be used with all kids, not just special needs kids to help with transitions.

When I ask him why he hits or spits he says it is because "she won't look at me or talk to me." so at first I thought it was just attention seeking behavior since he is in a new class with new kids and teachers. BUt it isn't getting better.

These things take time. Besides, he *is* getting

My Pediatrician says it is just 4 yr old behavior. The school says it is beyond normal behavior. I don't know where to start.

Part of me thinks I should maybe find another preschool and maybe move him back a year. His birthday is July first and our cut off is Sept 1st. He was also 8 weeks premature and born to a mom addicted to drugs and with major mental illness. We adopted him at birth.

What I don't understand is that he is such a good kid at home. Does great in small play groups at home or at others house, park etc.. He just has issues at Pre K. I don't want him to be labeled as a special needs kids if he is just a little immature and needs more time.

It may be that he needs more time. He is young for the 4 year old class *and* as a preemie, he may need more time to catch up.

I was so embarrassed when I picked him up hearing another Mom telling her kid he couldn't play with my Son because he was a bad influence I dont want to over react and get a neo psych. involved etc..if it is something he will grow out of (Which is what my Pediatrician is leaning toward) but I also don't want to be lazy about it and then send him to Kindergarten and him just be a mess. I am tempted to just pull him and do pre k activities and play dates from home but again I am scared that would do more damage then good..Anyone have any advice. Anyone been through this. I am just lost he is my one and only who just turned 4 in July and I don't want to mess this up.

I would look into other preKs rather than pulling him entirely or I would try to work with the teachers on his behaviors in a more positive way. Does your school system have a transitional kindergarten he can go to next year? Could you keep in in preK for an extra year if necessary?

[bowian]

Originally Posted by Netangel334

When I ask him why he hits or spits he says it is because "she won't look at me or talk to me."

Hmm. Is he being labeled the "bad" kid and being ignored? And are the other children are being told to ignore him? There is a difference between ignoring bad behavior and ostracizing a child that is deemed to be bad. The latter makes things worse. Not that it is the fault of the pre-K necessarily. They just can't control him anymore. The environment isn't a good one for him anymore.

I would try switching him to a new pre-K before doing anything else.