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Old 05-04-2019, 05:33 PM
bjh bjh started this thread
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
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Today's Kentucky Derby, the fastest horse, Maximum Security, disqualified for edging out other horses, impeding them.

2nd over the finishing line, Country House declared the winner, a 65-1 longshot.
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:59 PM
 
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Interesting race, bjh. Although Country House was not wronged by the winning horse, the winning horse violated the race rules by cutting off other horses in their own lane.

So I think the ruling was fair, but sad. Maximum Security maybe had Triple Crown potential, where Country House (who I originally picked as the winner before the race began, based on his excited behavior during the walk around) is probably not going to win either of the next two races.

War of Will was wronged here, and it could have been a horrific mess if his jockey didn't back him out of his lane to accommodate Maximum Security.

This just reminds us all that these horses are "babies" as Max Security's jockey said. MS just got spooked by the crowd noise and fled from the inside barrier in a momentary panic. I wish they'd race them at 4 or 5 years instead of 3.
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Interesting race, bjh. Although Country House was not wronged by the winning horse, the winning horse violated the race rules by cutting off other horses in their own lane.

So I think the ruling was fair, but sad. Maximum Security maybe had Triple Crown potential, where Country House (who I originally picked as the winner before the race began, based on his excited behavior during the walk around) is probably not going to win either of the next two races.

War of Will was wronged here, and it could have been a horrific mess if his jockey didn't back him out of his lane to accommodate Maximum Security.

This just reminds us all that these horses are "babies" as Max Security's jockey said. MS just got spooked by the crowd noise and fled from the inside barrier in a momentary panic. I wish they'd race them at 4 or 5 years instead of 3.
I agree with the ruling. I don't think MS's jockey intentionally cut off the other horses ... the noise could have spooked him, or he could also have been a bit tired and felt it in his legs. Very tough to keep control in those circumstances.

Calling you out on this one, Mr President.
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Interesting race, bjh. Although Country House was not wronged by the winning horse, the winning horse violated the race rules by cutting off other horses in their own lane.

So I think the ruling was fair, but sad. Maximum Security maybe had Triple Crown potential, where Country House (who I originally picked as the winner before the race began, based on his excited behavior during the walk around) is probably not going to win either of the next two races.

War of Will was wronged here, and it could have been a horrific mess if his jockey didn't back him out of his lane to accommodate Maximum Security.

This just reminds us all that these horses are "babies" as Max Security's jockey said. MS just got spooked by the crowd noise and fled from the inside barrier in a momentary panic. I wish they'd race them at 4 or 5 years instead of 3.
Since it is costly to breed, purchase, and train racehorses, there will never be a time when they are not raced until four years old. This is sad because a horse's musculoskeletal system takes 5 1/2 to 6 years to mature. The racing industry loves to promote the fact that stress increases bone growth, that racing these babies at two years old is beneficial, but that is not the whole story.

Bone remodeling does occur in response to stress, but it requires a period of four months and a controlled training regimen. The aggressive training that young thoroughbred and quarter horses are subjected to often results in bucked shins, bowed tendons, and fractures. Consider that in the USA, on dirt tracks with tight turns, a horse will experience 5-10 times its weight placed upon its joints and lower bone structures galloping around corners due to centrifugal and momentum forces.

Only 62% of foals by Lookin At Lucky, twice an American Champion and sire of Kentucky Derby winner Country House, have made it to the races. I wonder what happened to the others? Probably living good lives somewhere in green pastures.

I agree that the DQ was correct. The crowd noise may have spooked MS into changing leads, and his momentum carried him out. It's amazing that WOW didn't go down.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Mequon, WI
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Here we go now..."LOUISVILLE, Ky. – Gary West, the owner of Maximum Security, said Sunday he wants to appeal the stewards’ decision to disqualify his horse from first in Saturday’s Kentucky Derby, but based on Kentucky regulations, he may have to take it to federal court for it to be heard."


https://www.drf.com/news/west-contem...al-court?type=
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Old 05-05-2019, 05:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Milwaukee City View Post
Here we go now..."LOUISVILLE, Ky. – Gary West, the owner of Maximum Security, said Sunday he wants to appeal the stewards’ decision to disqualify his horse from first in Saturday’s Kentucky Derby, but based on Kentucky regulations, he may have to take it to federal court for it to be heard."


https://www.drf.com/news/west-contem...al-court?type=
Gary West has ever right to be pissed...he was willing to accept their decision but he requested a sit down with them to review the tape they reviewed and to ask some questions and they declined to meet with him...they told him later in the week....I'd be pissed too if I was him

But with that said. according to the rule the stewards made the correct call


Section 12 of rule 810 KAR1:016. The rule calls for disqualification if "a leading horse or any other horse in a race swerves or is ridden to either side so as to interfere with, intimidate, or impede any other horse or jockey."

___

But from my 40 years of playing the ponies I will offer my opinion and while I agree the taking down the horse was the right call this huge disqualification in the biggest race of the year would have been much easier to swallow by everyone if the stewards would have lit up the "Stewards Inquiry" sign the moment after Maximum Security crossed the finish line...


But they didn't ..claimed during the live race they didn't see the infraction ...so it took a jockey's OBJECTION in order for them to go to the video tape...and after viewing it many times and speaking with the jockey's involved they determined correctly that the disqualification rule was indeed broken

The bottom line in my opinion is the stewards blew it by not seeing what many others saw and for not posting an immediate " Stewards Inquiry" sign...but after the jockey objection and their reviewing the race and speaking with the jockeys they did the correct thing in disqualifying Maximum Security resulting in Country House being granted the biggest gift in horse racing history. I say gift because he benefited from War of Will who was clearly and without any doubt impeded.

Last edited by NY 915; 05-05-2019 at 05:13 PM..
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:52 AM
 
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As a participant in racing for over 40 years, Im ashamed in Gary West's putting the glory of a win over the safety of the horses and riders. I dont know why the head on view wasnt shown immediately. There would be no question that he had to come down. Its really a shame, and I know Bill Mott didnt want to win this way. Even if Maximum Security is the best horse, you still can't cheat to win.
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Paradise
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I'm so glad to see rational responses here. I've been watching racing (and playing ponies) for many years as well and feel I have a good understanding of it all.


Whether MS got spooked or his jockey lost control for a split second is a scary thought but it does happen. It's the potential consequences that are scarier and why MS had to be DQ'd. And the horse doesn't care. His connections, however, do.


The stewards made the right decision, but a little more transparency should have been displayed.
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Old 05-06-2019, 12:22 PM
 
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The rule, as written, is below:

"If a leading horse or any other horse in a race swerves or is ridden to either side so as to interfere with, intimidate, or impede any other horse or jockey, or to cause the same result, this action shall be deemed a foul. ... If, in the opinion of the stewards, a foul alters the finish of a race, an offending horse may be disqualified by the stewards."

The key word is MAY not WILL or SHALL. The rule is written to allow discretion. They missed the entire context of the race that cried out for restraint to allow the best horse to stand. The incident did not affect who won. That's why anyone interpreting these rules needs to have demonstrated in their body of work an ability to make the right call and have shown composure under fire. These stewards BLUNDERED BADLY! Small moment Ellis park move!

How on earth did Backwater Barbara Borden conclude that Country House was going to pass Max Security? Why are they not considering the following in the contact of the decision:

-19 Colts on 1 mile track - crowded lots of interference
-150,000 attendance - loudness could spook young horses
-Sloppy track - a real mess that could intrinsically resulting in swerving
-Important race - vital to ensure the best horse is declared winner

When I observed that the chief steward was on TV before the race we should have known we was in trouble. At that point the ego was inflated which led to the inflated ego backwater steward imposing their will on the result. You just know that this steward is a palookaville small timer that emerged from some dump like Ellis Park - totally missed the moment. MAJOR BLUNDER for BACKWATER BORDEN!
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:03 PM
 
1,635 posts, read 2,515,811 times
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Originally Posted by Call me Birdsler View Post
The rule, as written, is below:

"If a leading horse or any other horse in a race swerves or is ridden to either side so as to interfere with, intimidate, or impede any other horse or jockey, or to cause the same result, this action shall be deemed a foul. ... If, in the opinion of the stewards, a foul alters the finish of a race, an offending horse may be disqualified by the stewards."

The key word is MAY not WILL or SHALL. The rule is written to allow discretion. They missed the entire context of the race that cried out for restraint to allow the best horse to stand. The incident did not affect who won. That's why anyone interpreting these rules needs to have demonstrated in their body of work an ability to make the right call and have shown composure under fire. These stewards BLUNDERED BADLY! Small moment Ellis park move!

How on earth did Backwater Barbara Borden conclude that Country House was going to pass Max Security? Why are they not considering the following in the contact of the decision:


-19 Colts on 1 mile track - crowded lots of interference
-150,000 attendance - loudness could spook young horses
-Sloppy track - a real mess that could intrinsically resulting in swerving
-Important race - vital to ensure the best horse is declared winner

When I observed that the chief steward was on TV before the race we should have known we was in trouble. At that point the ego was inflated which led to the inflated ego backwater steward imposing their will on the result. You just know that this steward is a palookaville small timer that emerged from some dump like Ellis Park - totally missed the moment. MAJOR BLUNDER for BACKWATER BORDEN!
The stewards concluded that the winner interfered with 3 other horses, hence the DQ. Don't know how you came up with your statement (bolded).
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