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Oh please. All this Contador is a punk is silly. If you follow cycling and not just Lance (because he is a good ol' American from Texas) you will know that Astana's Tour team was set up to support Lance, not Contador. In fact, Contador was only able to bring one rider, Paulinho, as his support in the mountains. All the other riders were selected to support an aging Lance Armstrong. Astana tries to claim they support Contador, but the support has been limited. Contador has won the last 3 Grand Tours he was in and yet there was a question about his leader status...ridiculous.
As for Contador attacking and dropping his teamates, so what. He is there to win, not to support Lance or Kloden. He attacked to ensure he would win the Tour again. Lance has done that in the past. Roberto Heras was high up on the GC, but Lance had to attack to gain even more time, thus dropping Heras. You must not remember Eddy Merckx, the greatest of all time. He would attack relentlessly. It was simple for him, if you cannot keep up, then fend for yourself. Besides, the Schlecks would have attacked and dropped Kloden anyways.
So, Contador will win his 4th straight Grand Tour. Armstrong will start a new team and take Bruyneel with him. If they can, Leipheimer and Kloden will go with him. Contador will still be there and will still be better than all of them. If you think Contador is a punk, look at the garbage that comes out of Armstrong's mouth. He disses former teamates and has little respect for other riders IMO.
Oh blah blah blah Contador didnt have any help from the team ..blah blah blah. I believe Klodian and Lance was helping that punk and he dropped Klodian for his own personal gain and Klodian is ticked off.......Rolls my eyes @ Contador isnt getting help
Contador is a punk and selfish and Klodian is proof of that and Contador wont be half the man Lance is
Contador keeps this up he wont have any help every from anyone. Now wont that be funny
Cant believe Hincapie could be riding with a broken collarbone. He wont let doctors check him out to find out so he can finish the tour. Now that is a beast
Thor showed that he can do more then sprint
Thor has always been regarded a good all-rounder. He's a gifted TTer; he's won the TdF Prologue in the past. And this is not the first time he's been out hammering in the mountains in the Tour.
Yeah, watching George get on his bike yesterday was painful! Made me feel like a wimp.
I can't understand why people cheer cheaters such as Man Ram and Lance Armstrong? I'm a Marcin Sapa fan but who knows he might be doping since everyone else seems to be in racing.
Thor has always been regarded a good all-rounder. He's a gifted TTer; he's won the TdF Prologue in the past. And this is not the first time he's been out hammering in the mountains in the Tour.
Yeah, watching George get on his bike yesterday was painful! Made me feel like a wimp.
No kidding and he was up on that bike again today. I couldnt do it.
Word is Hincapie wont be back next year. How sad will it be to watch the Tour Next year and not hear Hincapie in there
Oh blah blah blah Contador didnt have any help from the team ..blah blah blah. I believe Klodian and Lance was helping that punk and he dropped Klodian for his own personal gain and Klodian is ticked off.......Rolls my eyes @ Contador isnt getting help
Contador is a punk and selfish and Klodian is proof of that and Contador wont be half the man Lance is
Contador keeps this up he wont have any help every from anyone. Now wont that be funny
You can believe all you want, but if you knew more about cycling and not just what the American/Pro Lance Media (Vs., NBC, ESPN) spews to you, you'd know that Contador has been getting very little help. In fact, even Versus coverage shows Lance usually in the back of the team rarely pulling even in the mountains. On the stage to Verbier, Contador attacked and Kloden could have gone with him, but stayed with Lance, the supported rider of Astana. In fact, I would argue that Kloden is even stronger than Armstrong but has been only a helper for him. Lance has not been able to stay with Contador or the Schlecks when the hammer has come down...so much for the help. Don't get me started with Kloden. He hasn't helped at all. He was struggling when Contador attacked. In fact, according to Alberto, he asked Kloden if he should attack and Kloden told him to go. Kloden has never denied that. As far as Lance, he was already dropped by the Schlecks.
Try not to get to worked up over Contador, he won't be on Armstrong's team next year. Armstrong will put together a strong team. If the Tour includes a team time trial, Lance will have a chance in next year's race. If there is no team time trial, Contador will crush him in both the TT and mountains.
Oh, and it does appear that Contador is about half the man Lance is...he has won 4 straight Grand Tours including 2 in one year.
Please spare us the, "If you knew more about cycling..." condescension. Just because someone disagrees with your analysis of the race, doesn't mean they know nothing about cycling.
Of course this is the internet, and I have no idea what your age is; but (based partly on your "aging Lance Armstrong" comment) I suspect that I was an amateur racer when you were still in grade school. When I was younger, I devoured anything I could read or watch regarding the professional side of the sport. In those days, the most you could get on American TV was a few highlights of Le Tour; but I read any cycling magazine I could get my hands on and a lot of historical books on the sport.
I don't recall any instance of Eddy Merckx attacking his teammates. He was known as "The Cannibal," due to his attacking style and the fact that he won every race worth mentioning--most of them several times. I could be wrong, but I don't think he ever attacked a teammate. Of course he was always the undisputed leader of the team. Now Bernard Hinault, on the other hand, did it to his teammate Greg LeMond (after promising to support LeMond.) LeMond then returned the favor.
Regarding Contador, there were attacks which were legitimate, and ones which weren't. For example, once, he followed the Schlecks; then when they had a gap, he attacked the Schlecks. On a couple of other occasions, he directly attacked his teammate--once when there was no benefit to anyone including himself.
But these are problems which arise when you don't have a designated leader.
As for Armstrong not working for Contador after Contador had taken the lead; that's just observably untrue. Working for your leader is not relegated to just pulling at the front all the time. If you notice, on the stage where Lance caught back up to Contador, Lance didn't just willy-nilly chase the Contador group with no thought of who he might pull with him. He tested his closest riders first, then determined that he could do it without pulling anyone with him.
I don't think that any of Contador's shenanigans cost Lance the race or anything like that. But there's little doubt that they were questionable at best--questionable tactically, and questionable in terms of the unwritten rules of the sport.
As far as Lance as a person; I'm sort of ambivalent. He has a great story, and as an American who grew up in the era when Americans were absolute outsiders in the sport; I love to see Americans win. He also does a lot for charity, and has done a lot to improve the lot of following American riders. On the other hand, he has come across as quite arrogant and abrasive at times. But, he had to put up with a virulently anti-Lance European media. I lived in the UK during most of his Tour-winning years. While the UK media was less antagonistic than the media in Continental Europe, there was a strain of it in the UK. I also spend some time on the UK cycling forums; and some of them can be particularly nasty about Lance. Then again, a lot of them don't much like Contador either.
So, I'm not just a "Go, Lance," fan. But I do think Contador has some things to learn about the sport, and about making and keeping friends in the Peloton. Ironically, that's something I've observed Lance having to learn over the years.
Last edited by wrightclan; 07-24-2009 at 06:00 PM..
Reason: typo
[quote=Acuda;9929294]You can believe all you want, but if you knew more about cycling and not just what the American/Pro Lance Media (Vs., NBC, ESPN) spews to you, you'd know that Contador has been getting very little help. In fact, even Versus coverage shows Lance usually in the back of the team rarely pulling even in the mountains.
We must be watching 2 different Versus! Every time I look, Lance is riding in front!
Please spare us the, "If you knew more about cycling..." condescension. Just because someone disagrees with your analysis of the race, doesn't mean they know nothing about cycling.
Of course this is the internet, and I have no idea what your age is; but (based partly on your "aging Lance Armstrong" comment) I suspect that I was an amateur racer when you were still in grade school. When I was younger, I devoured anything I could read or watch regarding the professional side of the sport. In those days, the most you could get on American TV was a few highlights of Le Tour; but I read any cycling magazine I could get my hands on and a lot of historical books on the sport.
I don't recall any instance of Eddy Merckx attacking his teammates. He was known as "The Cannibal," due to his attacking style and the fact that he won every race worth mentioning--most of them several times. I could be wrong, but I don't think he ever attacked a teammate. Of course he was always the undisputed leader of the team. Now Bernard Hinault, on the other hand, did it to his teammate Greg LeMond (after promising to support LeMond.) LeMond then returned the favor.
Regarding Contador, there were attacks which were legitimate, and ones which weren't. For example, once, he followed the Schlecks; then when they had a gap, he attacked the Schlecks. On a couple of other occasions, he directly attacked his teammate--once when there was no benefit to anyone including himself.
But these are problems which arise when you don't have a designated leader.
As for Armstrong not working for Contador after Contador had taken the lead; that's just observably untrue. Working for your leader is not relegated to just pulling at the front all the time. If you notice, on the stage where Lance caught back up to Contador, Lance didn't just willy-nilly chase the Contador group with no thought of who he might pull with him. He tested his closest riders first, then determined that he could do it without pulling anyone with him.
I don't think that any of Contador's shenanigans cost Lance the race or anything like that. But there's little doubt that they were questionable at best--questionable tactically, and questionable in terms of the unwritten rules of the sport.
As far as Lance as a person; I'm sort of ambivalent. He has a great story, and as an American who grew up in the era when Americans were absolute outsiders in the sport; I love to see Americans win. He also does a lot for charity, and has done a lot to improve the lot of following American riders. On the other hand, he has come across as quite arrogant and abrasive at times. But, he had to put up with a virulently anti-Lance European media. I lived in the UK during most of his Tour-winning years. While the UK media was less antagonistic than the media in Continental Europe, there was a strain of it in the UK. I also spend some time on the UK cycling forums; and some of them can be particularly nasty about Lance. Then again, a lot of them don't much like Contador either.
So, I'm not just a "Go, Lance," fan. But I do think Contador has some things to learn about the sport, and about making and keeping friends in the Peloton. Ironically, that's something I've observed Lance having to learn over the years.
I don't recall stating Merckx attacking a teammate. But, if my history is correct, in the 69 Tour, Julien Stevens (a teammate) was wearing yellow when Merckx attacked thus taking over the lead.
Here is where I disagree with your viewpoint on the tactics.
1. Astana's Tour team was set-up to support Lance. In fact, there were rumors before the Tour that Contador would jump ship due to the fact he was not being really looked at as team leader despite winning the last 3 Grand Tours. As stated above, he was allowed to bring one teammate of his choosing, Paulinho, and the rest were Bruyneel's and Armstrong's choices. Heck, Chris Horner, a fellow Oregonian almost made it but Contador got his man. Even going into the Tour, no one was sure who would be the leader.
2. Contador attacked to gain time on the Schlecks. He apparently was given the green light by Kloden. Only Bruyneel and Armstrong have complained. He believed the Schlecks were going to attack, so he dropped the hammer. Kloden, who was second a few years back and has the ability to go with them, but he wasn't able to. Plus, there have been statements that Kloden bonked as well as he went back very quickly. Also, Contador looked to have attacked and when he saw it hadn't worked he sat to the finish. Contador usually attacks again, but maybe he realized attacking wasn't going to work and he still gained time on Wiggins. Besides, Kloden and Lance should have gained time on the Schlecks in the TT, but actually gained surprisingly little on Andy.
3. Lance has not helped Contador much because he couldn't. Alberto said it best when he stated it was nice to see Lance come back but he was not needed. I have not seen Lance attack out of the lead riders or nail down any other attacks that have come, *cough, Schlecks, cough* Lance shaked Wiggins to keep his podium, which he was behind at the time.
4. Teammates- What teammates? Contador has one definite rider to support him, Paulinho. There has always been major tension and division in the team. How has a 3x Grand Tour rider who just came off a casual second place ride in the Tour de Suisse not be the certain team leader? Oh yes, because it is the Lance and Bruyneel Show. Next year, Lance/Bruyneel's new Team RadioShack will have Contador as public enemy #1 not because Contador dropped Lance or Klodi, but for not laying down and working for Lance.
5. Contador is not a hated man in the peloton. He isn't hated by the Schlecks, who will be his main rivals again next year. He let Frank win, so they do not hate him. So what if Lance and Klodi hate him. Kloden has team leader talent and yet he stays to be an also ran, helper at Astana.
Now, next year it will be on. But, I don't think it will be much different. Oh, I was only a Cat 3 racer before so I obviously did not have good enough tactical sense to advance further.
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