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Old 09-14-2012, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Finally escaped The People's Republic of California
11,280 posts, read 8,636,218 times
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the meaning of the flag has definatley changed over the years, No way in heck could the Dukes of Hazard have the flag on top of thier car today, without there being an uproar. Things change over the years, and the Stars and Bars is one of the items that the meaning has changed too. 30 years ago it wasn't a flag of hate, when the KKK and the Skinhead movement started flying it next to the Swastika, the Southern Pride argument lost, much like you could never use the Swastika as a religuos symbol after the Nazi's used it.....
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:43 AM
 
Location: Branson, Missouri
620 posts, read 1,227,144 times
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Originally Posted by Cali BassMan View Post
the meaning of the flag has definatley changed over the years, No way in heck could the Dukes of Hazard have the flag on top of thier car today, without there being an uproar. Things change over the years, and the Stars and Bars is one of the items that the meaning has changed too. 30 years ago it wasn't a flag of hate, when the KKK and the Skinhead movement started flying it next to the Swastika, the Southern Pride argument lost, much like you could never use the Swastika as a religuos symbol after the Nazi's used it.....
You can't seriously equate the southern flag to swastika. Let's be realistic here. I see the rebel flag on a daily basis, and it's hard to avoid driving anywhere around town. Do you really believe a majority of these people support hate and racism? Maybe some people are just proud of being southern?
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Missouri
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Originally Posted by imbored198824 View Post
You can't seriously equate the southern flag to swastika. Let's be realistic here. I see the rebel flag on a daily basis, and it's hard to avoid driving anywhere around town. Do you really believe a majority of these people support hate and racism? Maybe some people are just proud of being southern?
I think a lot of the young (and not so young) people associate the confederate flag with rebellion, and that is why they like it. But it's really rather ignorant of them, IMO. I think they are just too immature to really have thought about what it must have been like for an entire population to live under violence and oppression, with no basic human rights. IMO it's not any different than displaying the swastika, although I recognize that for most people who do display the flag, that is not their intention. I don't get bring proud of that history either; slavery is a blight on the history of all us Americans.

I do agree that this is a good example of wearing uniforms in school. It's sad that schools even have to deal with this, although this situation in itself is a learning experience for the students. A good opportunity to think about what symbols mean to people, how history is still relevant today, about how policy is made and why, and how to appropriately influence policy for change if change is desired.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:36 PM
 
914 posts, read 2,197,215 times
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Originally Posted by Arrby View Post
Of course many schools do ban items believed to be gang affiliated. My point is that without knowing it a child can run afoul of the "rules" because the rules themselves are not defined. Gang wear can change in a moment. It can be a color, or a number, or a pattern, or a hairstyle, or even how the clothes are worn on the body.
From today's news: "Officials at a Colorado high school reportedly confiscated rosary beads from a student, claiming the religious necklace is affiliated with gangs and disruptive to learning."
Colorado school seizes rosary beads from student, calls them 'gang' symbol | Fox News
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:56 PM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
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Originally Posted by Arrby View Post
From today's news: "Officials at a Colorado high school reportedly confiscated rosary beads from a student, claiming the religious necklace is affiliated with gangs and disruptive to learning."
Colorado school seizes rosary beads from student, calls them 'gang' symbol | Fox News
Now I have a problem. As a Catholic, I don't see the rosary as anything more than something used for prayer. Gangs have done stupid things with it.

On the other hand, I still have my stance against the Confederate flag because of the reasons the South wanted to secede, among them, slavery.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by christina0001 View Post
I think a lot of the young (and not so young) people associate the confederate flag with rebellion, and that is why they like it. But it's really rather ignorant of them, IMO. I think they are just too immature to really have thought about what it must have been like for an entire population to live under violence and oppression, with no basic human rights. IMO it's not any different than displaying the swastika, although I recognize that for most people who do display the flag, that is not their intention. I don't get bring proud of that history either; slavery is a blight on the history of all us Americans.

I do agree that this is a good example of wearing uniforms in school. It's sad that schools even have to deal with this, although this situation in itself is a learning experience for the students. A good opportunity to think about what symbols mean to people, how history is still relevant today, about how policy is made and why, and how to appropriately influence policy for change if change is desired.
In some cases, some people really don't care what it means to someone else. I mentioned earlier on that most Blacks originate from the South,but I don't any of them wearing Confederate flags. There has to be a reason for this. My mother is Black and from the South. She says she isn't proud of the Confederate flag or the South's history. She doesn't identify with it.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:54 PM
 
1,970 posts, read 1,757,767 times
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Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Now I have a problem. As a Catholic, I don't see the rosary as anything more than something used for prayer. Gangs have done stupid things with it.

On the other hand, I still have my stance against the Confederate flag because of the reasons the South wanted to secede, among them, slavery.
Pray tell, please tell us the reasons they wanted to secede. HINT: Slavery was not the main issue!!!
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:04 PM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
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Pray tell, please tell us the reasons they wanted to secede. HINT: Slavery was not the main issue!!!
Actually, according to the Articles of Secession, slavery was a MAJOR issue. I've read them for myself. In fact, here is a link: Declaration of Causes of Secession

I know some Civil War historians who have admitted to this. Slavery was a major part of the reason many southern states seceded.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:55 AM
 
3,020 posts, read 8,592,431 times
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Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Actually, according to the Articles of Secession, slavery was a MAJOR issue. I've read them for myself. In fact, here is a link: Declaration of Causes of Secession

I know some Civil War historians who have admitted to this. Slavery was a major part of the reason many southern states seceded.
I would agree. However the Confederate battle flag has only been associated primarily with slavery for the last 20-30 years or so. And mostly by the younger generation and African-Americans. For others, it is more a symbol of the south and our southern heritage. IMHO this attitude is contrived. But just the same, I would never display it publicly or advocate it being flown because some people will just get angry since they choose not to understand or tolerate the deeper symbolism involved.
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Old 09-16-2012, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Finally escaped The People's Republic of California
11,280 posts, read 8,636,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imbored198824 View Post
You can't seriously equate the southern flag to swastika. Let's be realistic here. I see the rebel flag on a daily basis, and it's hard to avoid driving anywhere around town. Do you really believe a majority of these people support hate and racism? Maybe some people are just proud of being southern?
That was'nt my intention. I'm just pointing out how the perception of it has changed. The Swastika was a religeous symbol before the Nazi party addopted it. After that it was a symbol of hate, in the last 25 years the Reb Battle flag has been changed from a flag of the South to a flag of hate too... I agree that not all people see it that way, Hell, I don't. but others do, unfortunatley....
and it may very well have different meanings in different parts of the country...I'm speaking of left coast, not the south....
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