Count My Vote - Newer Utahn's View (renting, crimes)

[GoOutsideAndPlay]

About a year and a half ago, I moved my family from Illinois to Utah. We could have gone anywhere, but the primary reason we chose Utah was because it’s one of the few places left in this nation where you can raise a family in a conservative social and political environment. In conversations with neighbors, it seems that many in Utah take this aspect of life for granted, perhaps because they’ve not experienced anything else. If you pay attention to the news, it’s obvious secular progressives have permeated much of our society. It’s very difficult to protect your children from their agenda and influence since they offer all the pleasures of a morally corrupt society, which can be quite enticing to our youth - who often think short-term rather than long-term. Coming from one of the most progressive states in our country, I can attest that the constant barrage makes parenting difficult. Since moving to Utah, life has been much easier and simple. People may make fun of the fact that moving to Utah is like going back in time, but we find it refreshing that values, integrity and character still matter somewhere.

As a result, I’d like to share my perspective on the Count My Vote Direct Primary vs. Caucus systems. First let me suggest that as things stand now, the impact of either system probably won’t change how things work all that much - initially. Conservative values will still rule. However, Utah’s population is changing - growing quickly and is expected to continue on that path. While some moving here are conservative, many more are not. While this may sound far-fetched, it’s not a matter of if, but a matter of how long the state can maintain its conservative edge. We might feel secure in the fact that for now, our elected officials are some of the most conservative in the country. That insulates us, gives us a false sense of security. But, as we just saw, one progressive judge can quickly change all of that. I’ll argue a direct primary system creates an atmosphere that allows progressive candidates to tap the pocketbooks of the wealthy secular movement (Hollywood/Soros types) to pick off elections one by one. If you haven’t figured it out by now, whomever spends the most money wins. Then, enter special interest groups who will give you money as long as you sign your soul away. Before long, you’re working for them and not the people. And, that’s what you have in Illinois and all across this country. Trust me, that’s not what you want, ever. The next thing you know, an inexperienced but charismatic “community organizer” is backed by powerful progressives, becomes a US Senator and well, sadly, you know the rest.

For the majority of us in Utah, those citizens involved in the grass roots caucus system represent our values and beliefs. Let this be a warning – while talking points like “everyone’s vote should count” sounds rooted in democracy, direct primaries are a tool for progressives and elitists who despise the fact that Utah is one of a few holdouts who have yet to bow to them. The caucus system also protects against powerful elites (left and right) from having too much power.

Utah needs to learn hard lessons from states like IL and CA - unless you want uniformed people determining the future of our state based on who had the most or best commercials. I’ll end on the fact that the caucus system may not ideal. As a non-Mormon, I realize the system may favor particular groups. It’s just that it’s better than the alternative. This is just one person’s “outside” view and personal opinion of why you may want to research this movement and be informed signing a petition at the movies "so your vote will count" because perhaps it already does. I’ll leave you with this. The process in itself is telling. According to Fox13, Count My Vote has raised $800,000 (much coming from just a handful of supporters) compared to just $9,000 for their grassroots opposition - Utah First. That’s a red flag and crystal ball into the future of Utah politics folks.

[markg91359]

I've participated in the Utah Caucus system. It has good and bad points.

The Good

1. It does allow for more individual participation in the process than primaries do.

2. It can be a way for a person without wealth or financial means to become involved in politics and move up the ladder.

3. Being a delegate is exciting. When I served as a delegate my phone rang every evening from about 6:30 until 9:30 p.m. generally with someone running for office on the other end of the phone.

The Bad

1. Its easy for the process to become dominated by special interest groups.

2. It generally results in extreme factions having too much control in the respective political parties. People with extreme views turn out for caucuses. People with moderate views often tend to stay home.

3. You can get nominees in a party who could never win a primary because they are too unpopular with the electorate at large.

4. Its better suited for a state with a small population. Utah used to have a very small population when these laws were crafted. Today, Utah has almost 3 million people. The caucus system becomes less practical when the population gets beyond a certain point.

5. In my experience, this caucus system is tougher on minorities and women seeking public office. Such candidates generally do better in a primary. This may say something about our prejudices as individuals. I'm sorry it is true, but my observation is this is very real.

[GoOutsideAndPlay]

Mark, I appreciate your perspective as someone with experience with this system. I don't doubt your observations. It seems that whenever something isn't working ideally, people think the only alternative it to completely change it (often rashly and with unintended results). Do you think there are ways to address the challenges with the caucus system without going to a direct primary system? Some sort of reform to the current system, rather than a proven problematic new system would seem more rational. Thoughts?

[kletter1mann]

First, this issue isn't at all confined to St George, which is kind of a backwater forum anyway. Why not move this to the Utah or SLC and get more visibility?

Originally Posted by GoOutsideAndPlay

>>snip<<
For the majority of us in Utah, those citizens involved in the grass roots caucus system represent our values and beliefs. Let this be a warning – while talking points like “everyone’s vote should count” sounds rooted in democracy, direct primaries are a tool for progressives and elitists who despise the fact that Utah is one of a few holdouts who have yet to bow to them. The caucus system also protects against powerful elites (left and right) from having too much power.

That's hilarious. Those same progressives that you seem to fear and loathe say the same about the primaries in other red states being a tool of the hard right.

But it does seem reasonable to be nervous about the changing demographics. With any luck they might be able to avoid giving people like Mike Lee a national platform to be utterly stupid and irresponsible. I can promise you that my wife and I will do our best to drag UT just 0.00001mm farther towards the blue.

[cedarite]

Utah has a staggering corruption problem that will need to be dealt with one way or another. I do not believe corruption is a wholesome conservative value that should be forever entrenched. Idealize the state government however you wish, just realize you sound as if you're living a fantasy not rooted in how this state actually is or runs.

[GoOutsideAndPlay]

cedarite, I just haven't seen it. Perhaps I'm niave or just not in the know. As a reminder, I came from IL and the Chicago machine - proudly sending 4 of our last 8 Governors to prison, plus countless state and U.S. congress-persons (most recently Jesse Jackson Jr.). List of American state and local politicians convicted of crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As I look at this list, Utah has zero (John Swallow resigned so won't appear unless they charge him). I concede, that may not mean Utah doesn't have corruption or a history thereof, perhaps they just don't do anything about it. But, consider that IL has taken it to a whole new level (a way of life). It's so pervasive, when you take office, they read you your Miranda rights along with the oath at the swearing in. Just kidding.

I think my point is that while Utah may have some corruption (which I've yet to see large scale), you aint seen nothing yet. Just wait until big money gets involved...where even a US Senate seat goes to the highest bidder and they don't even try to hide it.