Any density figures for downtown STL? (apartment, lofts, how much)

[skrizzle]

There are always KC vs STL threads... and in it the subject of STL being more dense, which of course it is more dense then KC.

However, I would argue that I believe KCs downtown to be more dense then STL. Does anyone have any hard statistics on this?

KC has at the least 5862/sq mile downtown. Possibly more but this is going by just 17k people as I'm to lazy right now to look and find out exactly how many we have at this point, but its at least that.

STL I can find no records for except

http://www.knowledgeplex.org/kp/fact...wn_rebound.pdf

Which says 2241.

Now using the current population for STL downtown (11800 from 2009)

That would put its downtown density at 3470 if updating the statistics from that website.

Anyone able to confirm any of these numbers out of curiosity?

[moorlander]

you would have much better luck, and more accurate responses, by posting this question on the www.urbanstl.com/forum (http://www.urbanstl.com/forum - broken link)

[stlcitygirl]

Downtown STL is closer to 13,000, http://www.downtownstl.org/docs/FastFactsMarch2010.pdf. Not sure about any density. Keep in mind, that located right out of the limits of downtown are: Soulard, Midtown, Old North, Lafayette Square, and Central West End. All these neighborhoods are very dense (excluding Old North which is growing)

[skrizzle]

stlcitygirl- Using that info it brings the density up to 3676 in STL. Thank you for the post. Moorlander i'll also check out that website.

[moorlander]

Why the question about density? Are you trying to compare both Missouri downtowns? If so, you should really include # of hotel rooms and # of jobs downtown. They create a vast majority of the street life.

[skrizzle]

Originally Posted by moorlander

Why the question about density? Are you trying to compare both Missouri downtowns? If so, you should really include # of hotel rooms and # of jobs downtown. They create a vast majority of the street life.

Well there is no question or debate that STL as a whole is more dense then KC.... KC has huge amounts of annexed land in the city proper.

The urban core though has always been in the debate. Now both downtown areas don't include all of the urban core for either city... but when discussing the 2 I think it's relevant to say sure... KC has sprawl and low density, but in our downtown we are much more dense. Also I don't have statistics on hotel rooms or # of jobs, but in another thread it was shown downtown KC has a higher daytime population then downtown STL, I can find the stats if someone wants me to.

The question though was because I'd like to back up what I say... if i'm getting the wrong info I wanted someone to correct me (as stlcitygirl did, I was off by 700 people for STL downtown population)

[masterwoood89]

If you want the actually density you take the number of people divided by the sq mileage of the area and in that case the population est. from wikipedia has Downtown Stl as 1.01 sq miles and 11,830 people so the density of DT STL is around 11,683.

Downtown KC from Wikipedia is 3 sq miles and has around 16,292(which is 2006) so DT KC is 5,431, but I don't know how much more KC has added since 2006 but I doubt they surpassed STL's density since then. It would take a population of DT KC to have over 35,000 people to have DT STL's density but its also 3x smaller

[Brickmama]

I think the 1.01 sq miles is a bit low but instead around 2 sq miles. That would put the density around 5-6k. It also has more hotels, employment, primary uses, which contributes to more density.

[1greatcity]

In all fairness, downtown St Louis appears to be more dense than KC's downtown because St Louis's definition of "downtown" (1.01 square miles) includes a much smaller area. Within that area are numerous highrise apartment buildings and lofts. Downtown KC's 3 square miles encompasses much more than just the highrise district.
So the main problem with comparing densities is that the official parmeters of the two downtowns are so different.
To get accurate figures, you'd really have to compare 3 square miles of both cities. Basically, you'd have to include all of following St Louis neighborhoods to come close to 3 square miles: Downtown (1.01 sq mi), Downtown West (1.15 sq mi), Columbus Square (.19 sq mi), Lafayette Square (.34 sq mi), and Lasalle Park (.21 sq mi). The total land area of these neighborhoods is 2.90 square miles, and the total population was 9,112 as of the 2000 census. The average density is 3,142/sq mi.
This is less than KC's 5,431/sq mi. You have to conclude that our downtown is less dense.

[Brickmama]

Thats the 2000 census. The area has seen a dramatic influx of residential population since then.

To set the record straight the Downtown area is made of 2 different neighborhoods. (downtown and downtown west). The population of Downtown (including downtown west) in 2009 was 12-13k alone. The square milage of the downtown area is roughly 2.2 sq miles.