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View Poll Results: Is St. Louis more cliquish than other cities its size?
Yes 42 50.00%
No 27 32.14%
Cliquish? What are you talking about? I grew up here and have thousands of friends! 3 3.57%
What high school did you go to? 16 19.05%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-15-2011, 10:03 AM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,780,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeAndBeer View Post
I think people in KC really are more open to making friends, and i was in several massive circles of friends when I lived there, and this was super. The mo/ks and urban vs suburban issue sseemed to grow worse, though, as i met more people outside of my somewhat sheltered collegiate/post collegiate world of midtown/downtown. St. Louis certainly has the urban vs. suburban issue too, but there seem to be more people who fall in a more moderate mindset with the semi-urban suburbs...without these people, nothing would happen. I'm often thankful to have St. Louis County instead of Johnson County across city limits. St. Louis sometimes feels like a dysfunctional family, while regional relations in KC seem more cold.
I'm from STL (still have family there), have lived in KC most of adult life (midtown) and have to completely agree with this post as well. STL really is cliquish now that I go back and KC is more laid back and more friendly. STL has somewhat better city/suburb relationships where KC has real problems across the state line. STL has more people from STL while KC has more people from all over the place. Well actually STL can attract people from elsewhere but can't seem to keep them.

I must say it was a breath of fresh air when I moved to KC, a heavy weight taken off shoulders. Also am exposed to people from all over the country in KC moreso than when in STL. Lots of new blood, new ideas in KC compared to STL. STL old city infrastructure is great but KC feels a bit more functional to me, a new economy city that has an interesting past. If I lost my job in KC and had a hard time finding one, would reconsider STL, but really only because family is there, not for the city.
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Saint Louis City
1,563 posts, read 3,854,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenokc View Post
STL has more people from STL while KC has more people from all over the place. Well actually STL can attract people from elsewhere but can't seem to keep them.
.
This post is completely off, at least half of my neighborhood is from other cities. That is one of the reasons I love it, there are people from every corner of the country. I think you have it the other way around. STL has at least 11 Fortune 500 companies that attract out of towners, KC has like 3, if that. You are way off base. Just an example, I am having a BBQ tonight for a small group of friends, out of the 10 attending, 5 are from out of state (VA, NM, WI, CA, IL) 5 are from Missouri, not bad.
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:41 AM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,780,313 times
Reputation: 534
I've lived in both cities. Just my two cents. The stats show the same thing, STL metro is flat or losing domestic migration whereas KC is gaining. There are also more young educated people moving to KC, many stats show this using different methods. KC ranked top 10 in attracting young educated from elsewhere. KC may not have as many HQs any more but there are hundreds of large companies who have a presence here. Plus, KC is quite a bit stronger in attracting visual arts/graphic designers, etc. - the creative class.

Don't want to turn this into a KC/STL war thread but I have more solid stats to back that up.
http://www.metrooutlook.org/assets/migration2007.pdf (pages 4-7, stl study shows same results)
America's Biggest Brain Magnets | Newgeography.com (many other methods show similar gains)

I will agree that STL is getting more new blood than 10-20 years ago, but not at the rate KC is. I'll accept your personal experience that things are improving. The question is, will they stay.

Last edited by xenokc; 07-15-2011 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Saint Louis City
1,563 posts, read 3,854,733 times
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^Xeno, you haven't lived here in sometime, so your perception may be skewed. I also REALLY don't want to start yet another STL vs KC thread, but STL is no slouch. Even 20+ year projections see STL's population still ahead of KC by a million people.
These are all recent links:

STL in Top 30 Places for Business and Careers

STL experienced the highest increase of any major US city in the percentage educated young adults living within 3 miles of downtown over the past 10 years!

St. Louis is ranked as the #8 Large City of the Future by Foreign Direct Investment Magazine.

STL named "Best Midwest Big City for a Weekend-Not really relevant but fun.

STL makes best cities to raise your kids by Parenting magazine

STL ranked 10th gayest city by Advocate magazine-Another fun one

St Louis ranked 5th in average annual total attendance among American cities at live theater performances -As for the arts

Last edited by stlcitygirl; 07-15-2011 at 11:40 AM..
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:51 AM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,780,313 times
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Good info but not really related to actual new blood influx into STL - especially that those who come stay long term, which doesn't appear to be the case. You said my post is completely off but I'll stick with it based on the stats. The fact this thread actually exists indicates STL is indeed cliquish, likely because there isn't as much new blood as other non-cliquish cities. Pretty reasonable explanation.
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,410 posts, read 36,846,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenokc View Post
Good info but not really related to actual new blood influx into STL - especially that those who come stay long term, which doesn't appear to be the case. You said my post is completely off but I'll stick with it based on the stats. The fact this thread actually exists indicates STL is indeed cliquish, likely because there isn't as much new blood as other non-cliquish cities. Pretty reasonable explanation.
How are the links that stlcitygirl "not relevant"?
I beg to differ, the links cover almost the whole range of experience in the Lou.
I dont see you putting up any links to refute her, just your opinion.
Whats up with that?
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Old 07-15-2011, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis City
1,563 posts, read 3,854,733 times
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^I think actually living here and being a part of it should be a good indicator.
Am I reading something wrong? STL is also included as a brain gain area on the second link.

Quote:
Among those metropolitan statistical areas with populations over 5 million, the best ranking went to the Philadelphia region (No. 12 overall), arguably the least glitzy and most affordable of the large northeast cities. The San Francisco metropolitan area, long a leader in its percentage of college-educated adults, held the next spot at No. 13. On the other hand, supposed "brain" magnets Boston and Chicago managed middling rankings, right behind Charlotte, N.C., and just ahead of San Antonio, Texas. Both fell well behind such overlooked "brain gain" areas as Jacksonville, Fla.; St. Louis, Mo.-Ill.; and Indianapolis. New York, the nation's intellectual capital, ranked a mediocre 29th and Los Angeles an even worse 37th. To put in perspective, Nashville's rate of college educated migration growth was 3.7%, compared with 1.4% for New York and a measly 0.7% for Los Angeles.
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Old 07-15-2011, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,410 posts, read 36,846,449 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlcitygirl View Post
^I think actually living here and being a part of it should be a good indicator.
Am I reading something wrong? STL is also included as a brain gain area on the second link.
Yes, I do believe one has to live or spend time in the area to be able to speak with any authority about the subject.
I live in the area part of the year, and am a native, so I know of which I speak.
And no, you didnt read that part of the link incorrectly at all, with the top-notch universities in the Lou, brain gain is a no-brainer!(Pun intended)
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:09 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 3,780,313 times
Reputation: 534
Just saying that while STL may be attracting people, the stats are showing STL is not keeping people. The metro growth afterall is only about 5%, which is about the same as birth/death rate. The migration data also shows flatness to loss depending on stat. Downtown is growing with young educated but that includes those moving from out outside downtown. No matter how you slice it, STL metro is not keeping people who move there. Don't have to live in STL to understand that.

And given that STL is indeed pretty cliquey, it suggest there is not enough an influx of new blood to overcome it (like KC).

I get the part about not living there anymore... I feel the same way about people coming into the KC forum with out of touch perceptions. For those you know who moved to STL, would be curious how many have been 5-10 years or definitely plan to stay. I know many people from around the country who tried STL... and left. The migration stats literally show it.

Believe me I want STL to move forward and MO as a whole. A friend went to nursing school at SLU and said she had a great time in STL but didn't want to stay. I asked her why, trying to encourage her to... she said it was essentially related to the clique thing and that too many people are from there. It seems to be a real issue.
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis City
1,563 posts, read 3,854,733 times
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So from the stats it looks like KC gained 200,000 residents, while STL gained 114,000, More than a third (36.4%) of the population growth in the KC metro area was accounted for by the increase in hispanics. That is one thing STL does not do well. They have not been friendly to the immigrant population, which accounts for so much growth nationwide. So while it is true, KC had more growth in the last 10 years than STL, it doesn't say a word about attracting and keeping college educated residents. Plus, St. Louis is still about 50% larger than Kansas City.
Honestly, I don't care about any of this. I enjoy where I live, as do most people I know. What I get sick of, is every time a KC resident want's to boast about their city, they try to put down STL. You NEVER hear a St Louisan bashing KC, very rare (unless you are in a college town like Springfield or Columbia). STL doesn't seem to care about competing with KC. On these boards, KC media, and just plain speaking with a KC resident, it's constant STL bashing, strange.
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