RFT: "Young Smarties "Choosing" Rust Belt Over Sun Belt" (St. Louis: living, costs)

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by aragx6

Like Illinois, I just couldn't see myself buying property in any state with so many budget problems right now, especially as it becomes more clear that any federal help is unlikely.

I have no problem with either coast really, I just like being a midwesterner. And if I wanted to replicate my urban lifestyle in all but a very few examples I'd have to spend a lot more money to make that happen -- even with the collapse in housing prices.

IL, liberal, terrible gun laws and the state in terrible state.

[Kathy884]

We did the same thing back in the 80s. In our professions jobs paid about the same nationwide (Actuarial Sciences and IT professions), we liked the Midwest, found that Midwest cities of one million or more vs. the coasts in our opinion offered us a higher standard of living. We've lived in Indianapolis, IN // Erie, PA // Denver, CO (but that was back in the 80s when it wasn't any more expensive than any other Midwest city (There is a huge premium for housing to live there now)), and St. Louis, MO (St. Louis County actually -- Glendale). (The more things change the more things stay the same.)


The only downside perhaps is that it would be really tough to move to a higher cost area. I have no regrets and love the Midwest. I did love Denver, though, (mostly for proximity to mountains) and do find it a little sad how expensive Colorado housing. The cost of housing made the decision to now stay in the Midwest instead super easy though.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Kathy884

We did the same thing back in the 80s. In our professions jobs paid about the same nationwide (Actuarial Sciences and IT professions), we liked the Midwest, found that Midwest cities of one million or more vs. the coasts in our opinion offered us a higher standard of living. We've lived in Indianapolis, IN // Erie, PA // Denver, CO (but that was back in the 80s when it wasn't any more expensive than any other Midwest city (There is a huge premium for housing to live there now)), and St. Louis, MO (St. Louis County actually -- Glendale). (The more things change the more things stay the same.)


The only downside perhaps is that it would be really tough to move to a higher cost area. I have no regrets and love the Midwest. I did love Denver, though, (mostly for proximity to mountains) and do find it a little sad how expensive Colorado housing. The cost of housing made the decision to now stay in the Midwest instead super easy though.

The only desirable area I prefer in the Midwest is the Upper Midwest. I can't stand the climate of the Lower Midwest and Upper South as it is the worst of everything. One to two weeks of Spring if you are lucky, a mediocre Fall, sloppy, wet, muddy Winter, and horridly hot and humid Summer. The southern influences into the Lower Midwest are fairly aggravating as well. At least with solidly northern or southern areas you know exactly what you're going to get.

[FalstaffBlues]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

The only desirable area I prefer in the Midwest is the Upper Midwest. I can't stand the climate of the Lower Midwest and Upper South as it is the worst of everything. One to two weeks of Spring if you are lucky, a mediocre Fall, sloppy, wet, muddy Winter, and horridly hot and humid Summer. The southern influences into the Lower Midwest are fairly aggravating as well. At least with solidly northern or southern areas you know exactly what you're going to get.

Medicore fall?

Fall often lasts till January in the lower midwest. Its wonderful.

Where there is no fall is your beloved Northwoods where its Winter starts Novemebr 1st.

[pdm_ad]

Here in SW and S STL County we certainly don't have wet muddy winters. We edge into the Ozarks and have way too rocky of a terrain for that. There are a ton of great bike trails that are a blast to ride from Nov-Feb, no bugs and you generally have the place to yourself.

I like the fact that we are constantly changing, having the same thing over and over again would get boring IMO. During many winters between STL and CHI a snow line will form and it can last for a month or two. Chicago would never get above freezing for that entire time while we get breaks with temps in the 50-60s during that same span. I used to make the drive from Joliet to STL frequently for work (miss those Portillo's beef sammys) and it was not uncommon in winter to see a 30 degree difference in that 4 hour drive. We rarely have snow on the ground for longer than a week down here.

And just south of here they rarely get the breaks in summer heat from cold fronts that we can often get. We usually have fronts start in Aug while down in Memphis they have to wait 2-3 more weeks at least.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by pdm_ad

Here in SW and S STL County we certainly don't have wet muddy winters. We edge into the Ozarks and have way too rocky of a terrain for that. There are a ton of great bike trails that are a blast to ride from Nov-Feb, no bugs and you generally have the place to yourself.

I like the fact that we are constantly changing, having the same thing over and over again would get boring IMO. During many winters between STL and CHI a snow line will form and it can last for a month or two. Chicago would never get above freezing for that entire time while we get breaks with temps in the 50-60s during that same span. I used to make the drive from Joliet to STL frequently for work (miss those Portillo's beef sammys) and it was not uncommon in winter to see a 30 degree difference in that 4 hour drive. We rarely have snow on the ground for longer than a week down here.

And just south of here they rarely get the breaks in summer heat from cold fronts that we can often get. We usually have fronts start in Aug while down in Memphis they have to wait 2-3 more weeks at least.

True. In Missouri there are big differences as well. Like May, 5 years ago I went to Branson for a few days. It was low to mid 70s for the high the day I drove down. Stopped in Springfield it was low 80s and 35 miles south in Branson it was around 90 and a lot more humid too than in St. Louis.

Like St. Louis in the winter could be 50 degrees, but down in Cape Girardeau it's 74 degrees for the high and severe thunderstorms due to the warm front. I've seen that many times the warm front barely makes it to St. Louis and it's about 60 degrees but in Rolla It's 70 degrees.

That is how a lot of the winter severe weather happens.

Southern Missouri has a really mild climate, especially the southern quarter is about the same as northern and middle TN. Especially SW Missouri can get pretty warm days in the winter, places like Joplin, Springfield, West Plains get several days where the temps get into the 60s and 70s. When it does snow or get cold it only last a few days down there.

St. Louis still gets a number of mild days most winters as well.

That is one good thing about the St. Louis summers is you still get cool spells where temps only get into the low 80s and lower 60s for lows.

Places like Cape Girardeau, Springfield, Joplin, Do not get that relief very much in the summer. it's pretty hot and humid in southern Missouri the entire summer.

I find St. Louis winters to be boring. Don't get a lot of heavy snow or ice storms. Southern Missouri while it doesn't get a lot of snow it does get more violet weather in the winter. You get more severe weather outbreaks but you also get a lot of bad ice storms in southern Missouri as well as northern Arkansas, and TN. It seems about 30 miles south of St. Louis is less snow and more freezing rain events compared to St. Louis it's either sleet or snow.

It's like St. Louis is caught between the two areas. Just south of stl you get a lot more violet weather and just north of St. Louis as well.

One reason why St. Louis and other large cities get less severe is because of the heat island effect. The air around St. Louis is drier and lower dew point due to the asphalt and buildings which dry up the atmosphere.

Notice thunderstorms explode over rural Missouri and then when they approach St. Louis within about 25 miles the usually weaken only to quickly explode when they reach that rural, most IL farmlands on the other side of the river.

Sure, Stl does get tornadoes and wind events but not to extend surrounding areas do.

Dave Murray talks about this a lot as well.

Overall I think stl has boring weather.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

The only desirable area I prefer in the Midwest is the Upper Midwest. I can't stand the climate of the Lower Midwest and Upper South as it is the worst of everything. One to two weeks of Spring if you are lucky, a mediocre Fall, sloppy, wet, muddy Winter, and horridly hot and humid Summer. The southern influences into the Lower Midwest are fairly aggravating as well. At least with solidly northern or southern areas you know exactly what you're going to get.

The good thing for you is most of the areas you prefer are very inexpensive compared to others because of the mass migration out of them because most people think the weather sucks.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by FalstaffBlues

Medicore fall?

Fall often lasts till January in the lower midwest. Its wonderful.

Where there is no fall is your beloved Northwoods where its Winter starts Novemebr 1st.

Fall starts much earlier in the Northwoods, much better brilliant fall foliage as well in case you didn’t know. Also, bugs disappear fast in Fall due to below freezing temperatures unlike further south. Winter is always better than heat and humidity, there are too many of those places in the US. Snow, yea, saw a coating the other day north of Wausau. I was hiking 10 miles of trails in Vilas County.
Yea, “winter” in the Lower Midwest and Upper South is an extended Fall to a degree. Rain, sleet, snow, freezing rain, mud, sloppy, not consistently cold, and gray. I prefer snow, more clear days, and consistent cold.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

The good thing for you is most of the areas you prefer are very inexpensive compared to others because of the mass migration out of them because most people think the weather sucks.

Right, that explains why the Twin Cities consistently ranks as one of the best performing metro areas in the Midwest- with solid gains in median household income, educational attainment, and real estate values. A much shorter distance to the Northwoods, a solid advantage.

[gentlearts]

My grandson lives it St Charles and commutes to US Steel in IL. It’s his first job after college, after in internship in Silicon Valley, where his bedroom in a house was $2000. a month. The cost of living outside the Midwest, the very high starting salary of his job, made it a no brainer. He’ll have his student loans paid off in 18 months, and then he’ll buy a house.