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Old 07-21-2011, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
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^That's great info. Thanks.
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
^That's great info. Thanks.
Np.

Just realized one mistake I made in those numbers when I was honing in on a relocation neighborhood that probably understates STL crime rates a bit:

For Chi I took 2010 #s (latest)
For STL, I took 2011 first 6 months and doubled them,

STL's actual rates are higher in 2010 and only taking first 6 mos 2011 probably understates things. Why? Because the high crime months are usually the warmest and the first half of the year doesn't contain the two warmest months (July-Aug).
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
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Any reason you didn't just use St. Louis' 2010 numbers then, so that it would be a more apples-to-apples comparison?
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
Any reason you didn't just use St. Louis' 2010 numbers then, so that it would be a more apples-to-apples comparison?
To be honest, it's because I was stupid about it. I did run those 2010 #s as well. I have the #s back home. Since you've lived in both Chicago and STL (as I have) and you're interested, I can post the apples to apples Chicago community area vs. STL neighborhood if you want later. Just tell me which Chi and STL neighborhoods you'd be interested in seeing.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
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^That makes sense and I don't blame ya for it.

In thinking about it though, I'm wondering something else -- the crime stats for Chicago are based on community area right? I wish St. Louis had something similar, as I wonder how official neighborhood boundaries are determined.

I mean I'm fairly interested in it all, cuz I'm weird like that. I never once felt the slightest bit scared in Chicago while living there, but I haven't yet actually lived in St. Louis city, so i wonder how transitional neighborhoods like Forest Park Southeast and Benton Park hold up?
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis City
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^I would consider Benton Park pretty safe and past the transitional phase, it's come a LONG way in the last 5 years. A friend of mine bought a house to rehab about 6 years ago in Benton Park. I went to see it and thought she was crazy. Now, the house across from her sold for $400,000 and every house on the street has been rehabbed. I'm not so sure how I feel about FPSE, it could be awesome and if I had the time I would buy a property there, same with Benton Park West right off Cherokee.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stlcitygirl View Post
^I would consider Benton Park pretty safe and past the transitional phase, it's come a LONG way in the last 5 years. A friend of mine bought a house to rehab about 6 years ago in Benton Park. I went to see it and thought she was crazy. Now, the house across from her sold for $400,000 and every house on the street has been rehabbed. I'm not so sure how I feel about FPSE, it could be awesome and if I had the time I would buy a property there, same with Benton Park West right off Cherokee.
That is great to know. We're getting ready to sign a lease on home in BP, and despite what my head tells me, I'm still a bit nervous. I saw some crazy stuff in Wicker Park in the 90s, but I was living with a college buddy of mine straight out of school. I'm a bit less brave than I was now that a wife and a 2 yr old are in the picture.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
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There are some VERY safe parts of Benton Park I work down in that area, and exercise by walking/jogging through Benton Park every couple days. I typically stay in Benton Park East (East of Jefferson) and have jogged through the park numerous times too (which is pretty cool in my opinion). I think you'll like the area, just practice some typical street smarts, and encourage your wife to do the same and you shouldn't have any issues. Enjoy!
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:42 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,413,080 times
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Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
In thinking about it though, I'm wondering something else -- the crime stats for Chicago are based on community area right? I wish St. Louis had something similar, as I wonder how official neighborhood boundaries are determined.

I mean I'm fairly interested in it all, cuz I'm weird like that. I never once felt the slightest bit scared in Chicago while living there, but I haven't yet actually lived in St. Louis city, so i wonder how transitional neighborhoods like Forest Park Southeast and Benton Park hold up?
Chicago crime stats are done by police district, ward, and community area. Community areas are more or less clusters of neighborhoods with some exceptions. A good example is the eastern portion of Humboldt Park, which is not actually in the Humboldt Park CA, but grouped with Wicker, E Village, Bucktown, etc. All this stuff was drawn up by some sociology geek at U of C 60+ years ago. Chicago doesn't aggregate by neighborhood because neighborhood boundaries are very fluid. You could probably ask two very knowledgable neighbors what neighborhood they live in and get two different answers in Chicago. STL has very well defined neighborhood boundaries, but its own quirks, like the large parks being their own "neighborhoods".

Simplifying crime down to rates based upon residents can be a bit misleading, because certain areas that are huge nightlife draws have more foot traffic and opportunity for crime than a largely residential area. You'll see this with Soulard and CWE, which probably are more skewed toward nightlife per resident than any Chicago CA, even the entertainment heavies like WP and Lincoln Park.

Comparisons:
families and retirees. STL rates = 15 to 35. Chicago rates = 10 to 30 per 10K.
Neighborhoods like the Hill or Dogtown are probably most similar to a place like Bridgeport in Chicago. STL = 40 to 50 per 10K. Bridgeport =35.
Lincoln Park and Lakeview are kind of insulated enclaves of professionals close to downtown. There isn’t anything that directly compares in STL, although I think Lafayette Square shares some similarities: insulated thanks to parkways/highways, limited access, kind of shiny and whitewashed (not necessarily in a bad way). Lafayette Square = 68. Those two Chicago areas are in the 40 to 45 range. This is by far the biggest stretch I’m going to lay out there in terms of comparability.
Next, for lack of a better term, quasi-established areas. Typically, they’re racially integrated with weathy newcomers and not as well off old timers. If they are more established, than at the very least they border areas that are substantially iffier in terms of safety:
STL: Shaw (62), Compton Heights (69), CWE (106), DeBaliviere (107), McKinley (109), BP (112), TGS (122), Soulard (157).
Chicago: Edgewater (47), Uptown (60), Lower West Side AKA Pilsen (81) Logan Square (85), West Town AKA Wicker Park/Bucktown/E Humboldt etc. (94), Rogers Park (98).
For some of the STL "fringe" areas: Fox Park (170), TGE (176), FP SE (224), BPW (282).

Chicago equivalents: Avondale (90), Kenwood (90), Humboldt Park (221), Near West Side, which is shiny/new to the east and very sketchy further west at 125.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:47 AM
 
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^Good info. I also wanted to reiterate that I feel Benton Park (north of Arsenal) is a safe area past the transitional phase. South of Arsenal (BPW, mostly although BP proper still goes south) is somewhat more transitional. I've always thought Benton Park was the most underrated STL neighborhood. So many of my favorites are there like Venice Cafe, Niche, Foam, Benton Park Cafe, Fraziers...

I would live there without any hesitation
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