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Old 11-03-2011, 01:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
That's interesting. Denver metro has around 3 million, the same as STL. The actual city of Denver has been going back up in population and is now over 600K. I think it bottomed out somewhere in the 400Ks in the late '70s/early '80s. So why does Denver grow and STL doesn't? Demographics? Different amounts of poverty? Schools?
demographics, schools, and poverty

But isn't Denver combined with Denver County? If St. Louis were combined with St. Louis County it would have 1.3 million people, with minimal population loss (around 4%) since the 2000 census.
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:18 PM
 
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Yeah, I didn't mean to imply Memphis was midwestern when I included it in that list. I don't think there's any doubt it is southern.

However, Memphis -- like the other cities I named -- is a something of a poster child for "growth through annexation". Both the census data and even a pretty cursory tour of N. and S. Memphis 'hoods suggest that the city's pre-war neighborhoods have experienced significant population loss on par with the historic urban cores of nearly every midwestern city.

As to why Denver is growing while St Louis shrinks? A lot of morons like to look at mountains in the distance, take 3 weekend trips a year to a ski resort and then loudly proclaim their love of "an outdoorsy lifestyle".
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
If St. Louis were combined with St. Louis County it would have 1.3 million people, with minimal population loss (around 4%) since the 2000 census.
Oh, that's a pretty big leap logically. I mean, part of the county's appeal was the fact that it is not StL, so if the two had been "combined" there is a very real chance that the county would never have gotten as big, and would now be losing population at the same rate as StL.

Just about any city could say, "hey, if we were combined with our biggest suburban county we'd have a whole lot more people and less population loss."
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Oh, that's a pretty big leap logically. I mean, part of the county's appeal was the fact that it is not StL, so if the two had been "combined" there is a very real chance that the county would never have gotten as big, and would now be losing population at the same rate as StL.

Just about any city could say, "hey, if we were combined with our biggest suburban county we'd have a whole lot more people and less population loss."
I was just pointing out the fact that Denver consolidated with it's county, the exact opposite of what St. Louis did, so right off the bat, you know it's hard to compare both cities.

and yes, if STL city and county were combined, who knows how what the population would be. But regardless, I already think of the county (except for the areas that are really far out) as part of St. Louis. So I dont think of St. Louis as just having 319,000 people, more like 1 million, more or less.
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Old 11-03-2011, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 24,571,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
demographics, schools, and poverty

But isn't Denver combined with Denver County? If St. Louis were combined with St. Louis County it would have 1.3 million people, with minimal population loss (around 4%) since the 2000 census.
Yes, Denver is a city/county. But the actual city/county is the urban core, not surrounding suburbs, so I think it's an accurate comparison.
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply Memphis was midwestern when I included it in that list. I don't think there's any doubt it is southern.

However, Memphis -- like the other cities I named -- is a something of a poster child for "growth through annexation". Both the census data and even a pretty cursory tour of N. and S. Memphis 'hoods suggest that the city's pre-war neighborhoods have experienced significant population loss on par with the historic urban cores of nearly every midwestern city.

As to why Denver is growing while St Louis shrinks? A lot of morons like to look at mountains in the distance, take 3 weekend trips a year to a ski resort and then loudly proclaim their love of "an outdoorsy lifestyle".
Oh, so now we're a city of morons lol!?

A lot of people do move here for an "outdoorsy lifestyle". I personally run outside 5 days per week, and I prefer a climate that isn't humid. People move here for the urban environment as well. I haven't been to STL since the mid '90s, so I can't compare the current downtown to Denver's, but I don't recall it having something like the 16th St. Mall. It did seem nicer than downtown KC though, and obviously has the big tourist draw down by the river.
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 24,571,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
demographics, schools, and poverty

But isn't Denver combined with Denver County? If St. Louis were combined with St. Louis County it would have 1.3 million people, with minimal population loss (around 4%) since the 2000 census.
I looked it up and STL County is 507 square miles vs. 62 for STL city. Denver, both county and city are 153 square miles. 53 of those square miles are an annex for the airport that's essentially undeveloped land and not part of the urban core. So really, to compare fairly, the city of Denver is around 100 sq. miles and is mostly old, urban core.
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:41 PM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
8,288 posts, read 18,208,863 times
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In the case of Denver, Lowry Air Force Base was closed in the mid 90s, and there was subsequent massive residential housing and infill around here that created an uptick in the population. I am trying to determine a similarly open space in St. Louis and can't think of one.
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Old 11-03-2011, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,985,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
That's interesting. Denver metro has around 3 million, the same as STL. The actual city of Denver has been going back up in population and is now over 600K. I think it bottomed out somewhere in the 400Ks in the late '70s/early '80s. So why does Denver grow and STL doesn't? Demographics? Different amounts of poverty? Schools?
Denver simply never had the social issues like cities further east, at least no where near to the same extent.

However, Denver did hit its historical population peak in 1970 with 514,678 and bottomed out in 1990 with 467,510. Denver has gotten major growth since then from Californians seeking refuge from California's economics as well as drawing on its mountain views and nearby recreational amenities. It also looks like you guys have gained a great deal of Hispanics, as they make up 1/3rd of Denver's city population. Denver's population now is 600,158 as of 2010.
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Old 11-03-2011, 04:51 PM
 
2,202 posts, read 2,584,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Oh, so now we're a city of morons lol!?

A lot of people do move here for an "outdoorsy lifestyle". I personally run outside 5 days per week, and I prefer a climate that isn't humid.
A lot of people say they do, that's for sure. But honestly, running outside in urban Denver doesn't make you an outdoorsy person, in my opinion (and it is just that, an opinion, that I know isn't shared by everyone). Neither does an occasional skiing trip or a veiw of the mountains from your condo or bungalow.

There is a pretty common misperception that "the outdoors" only exists in the Mountains or Pacific Northwest. I don't want to offend. Denver to me seems bigger, more functionally urban and frankly more successful as a city than St Louis, but it just doesn't seem as interesting, funky or as cool.

I more or less think it has a better brand, namely an appeal to a kind of yuppie who fancies certain recreations to be legitimate "lifestyles". Sorry if you are one of them. If you're not (maybe even if you are) you probably shouldn't care too much what someone on the internet thinks of your precious Denver. But then again, you are kind of passive/aggressively trolling and thread about St Louis depopulation, so maybe you needed an ego boost you didn't get. Why don't you lace up your Nike Shox, squeeze into your tights-over-shortshorts combo, down a tube of GU and sweat it out on the streets of Denver, buddy.
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