U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > St. Louis
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-04-2011, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 24,571,527 times
Reputation: 10428

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.davis View Post
A lot of people say they do, that's for sure. But honestly, running outside in urban Denver doesn't make you an outdoorsy person, in my opinion (and it is just that, an opinion, that I know isn't shared by everyone). Neither does an occasional skiing trip or a veiw of the mountains from your condo or bungalow.

There is a pretty common misperception that "the outdoors" only exists in the Mountains or Pacific Northwest. I don't want to offend. Denver to me seems bigger, more functionally urban and frankly more successful as a city than St Louis, but it just doesn't seem as interesting, funky or as cool.

I more or less think it has a better brand, namely an appeal to a kind of yuppie who fancies certain recreations to be legitimate "lifestyles". Sorry if you are one of them. If you're not (maybe even if you are) you probably shouldn't care too much what someone on the internet thinks of your precious Denver. But then again, you are kind of passive/aggressively trolling and thread about St Louis depopulation, so maybe you needed an ego boost you didn't get. Why don't you lace up your Nike Shox, squeeze into your tights-over-shortshorts combo, down a tube of GU and sweat it out on the streets of Denver, buddy.
I'm originally from KC, and have spent a fair amount of time in St. Louis. It seems to me like STL has great (and a lot of older) architecture than Denver and great bones for an urban environment. Denver's definitely gained population through a lot of infill. We're building out an extensive light rail system, similar to what STL is doing. I was just curious why STL hasn't seen an influx of people back into the urban core like many cities have. I always liked it more than KC because it feels more like a "big city" than KC does.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-04-2011, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
3,385 posts, read 7,639,994 times
Reputation: 2238
When visiting my brother-in-law in denver (he lives out in the burbs) I noticed a lot of folks out riding their bicycles in the foothills leading up to the mountains. While that doesn't necessarily equate to being an "outdoorsman" I do think it provides a type of natural beauty that you don't see here in the midwest...or at least, a very "different" one.

As to why St. Louis hasn't seen a massive influx of residents, the answer is multifaceted. St. Louis City public schools are awful, and this might be an understatement. Many folks want newer homes, and larger lots and for the most part the city doesn't offer that. Now house size for the money is better in St. Louis City than St. Louis County...but that's a double edged sword. If you can typically get more house for the $$ in the city, then people wanting to flaunt their financial accomplishments will be looking elsewhere, namely our very affluent West county.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-04-2011, 03:40 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 9,563,216 times
Reputation: 1857
^ but Denver itself is as flat as St. Louis if not flatter, so if people are moving there and trying to be outdoorsy, thinking they're gonna bike in the foothills of their neighborhood every day, they'll be very disappointed. I guess they can drive a little bit to the hills and then bike/run/whatever. But people in St. Louis can just drive to West County if they want some hills. Yes, I realize it's nothing like Colorado, but I think it would be enough for an outdoorsy person. The city of Denver isn't inherently more outdoor-friendly than the city of St. Louis, it's just close to better outdoorsy places (the Rockies vs the Ozarks)

Last edited by Smtchll; 11-04-2011 at 03:50 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-04-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,541 posts, read 11,254,143 times
Reputation: 5517
Is there any chance that St. Louis can annex St. Louis County for consolidation? It seems if that happened that would solve a lot of the population problems that have plagued St. Louis for over 60 years.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-04-2011, 06:50 PM
 
Location: South St Louis
4,163 posts, read 3,811,352 times
Reputation: 2664
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Is there any chance that St. Louis can annex St. Louis County for consolidation? It seems if that happened that would solve a lot of the population problems that have plagued St. Louis for over 60 years.
The City of St Louis does not and would not have the power to simply annex land without the approval of the majority of voters in all juristictions involved.
Most of the City of St.Louis is bordered by other incorporated cities (Clayton, U-City, Jennings, etc.). These long-established municipalities would very likely reject the idea of being annexed.

Perhaps you are thinking of the type of unified city- county government that cities like Louisville have. It takes a tremendous amount of regional cooperation to pull that off; not sure that provincial St Louis could ever manage to.

A far more likely possibilty would be for the City of St. Louis to lose its independent status and rejoin St. Louis County as a 93rd municipality. Granted, this wouldn't in itself change the city's population one bit. But-- being part of the county, the city would no longer have to provide all of the same services it now does. Some would be provided at the county level. So the city would save revenue, which could be redirected toward other efforts that might make the city more appealing. Which, in turn, could draw more residents, thereby increasing density.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2012, 03:56 PM
 
16 posts, read 24,229 times
Reputation: 12
plus st louis city has a 1% earning tax alot of corporarations dont want to deal with that. the county is where your growth rate is.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2012, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
3,385 posts, read 7,639,994 times
Reputation: 2238
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1greatcity View Post
Granted, this wouldn't in itself change the city's population one bit. But-- being part of the county, the city would no longer have to provide all of the same services it now does. Some would be provided at the county level. So the city would save revenue, which could be redirected toward other efforts that might make the city more appealing. Which, in turn, could draw more residents, thereby increasing density.
I'd wonder what overlaps would be expected. I'm sure in some of the unincorporated areas of St. Louis County things would be similar, but I know that in my municipality we pay for many of the services we enjoy. Trash pickup, street sweepers, pool, parks, golf courses, snow removal, etc are all paid out of the city budget. I'd have to imagine that many other parts of St. Louis are the same, unless they simply don't have the financial means to do so. What overlaps do you see?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2012, 08:59 PM
 
Location: South St Louis
4,163 posts, read 3,811,352 times
Reputation: 2664
Some examples would include snow plowing of major arteries, community development block grants, running elections, emergency alert system, neighborhood improvement programs, heating and cooling assistance, and the library system.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2012, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
3,385 posts, read 7,639,994 times
Reputation: 2238
to stir the pot.

I vote NO! All of that stuff works perfectly in the county, and I don't like sharing with the city...get your own.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2012, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,572 posts, read 6,985,018 times
Reputation: 2589
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
I tend to peg the peak of industrial cities as being 1970, but spot on.

As for you all mentioned STL being landlocked, that's true, but in reality every industrial city has lost population in it's core/original boundaries, much the way STL has - though STL, Detroit, and others are in the lead of this trend.

It has to with with racial issues, desegregation, white flight, the fact people had more kids back then, as well as the fall of the working class - the latter doesn't get enough credit and gets overshadowed by other issues.

The fall of the working class as a result of the fall of industrial jobs is also a major reason these cities have so much crime, including violence. Industrial jobs are what drew a diverse population to these cities in the first place and is the reason they have large black populations. Then industrial jobs hit their peak and have been in decline ever since, leaving the working class scrambling - the most unfortunate of whom were left behind and are still residing in what has become America's ghettos. Here, you have the most unfortunate, least skilled, least educated, etc. segregated amongst themselves enabling and feeding off one another, without anybody to really look up to in the community. It's a mess.

That said, what we need in these cities and this country as a whole the most is jobs. Jobs are #1. What rubs me the wrong way is that many of the cities with these troubled, depressed populations sort of ignore that portion of the population and focus on recruiting white-collar jobs, young college grads, and the prestige of large companies, while not addressing the needs of the unskilled workers who aren't college educated and many or most of whom are not cut out for college. Many of these folks don't even have the demeanor, interpersonal skills, or language skills to work in call centers. These people and their communities need industrial jobs - production, distribution, warehousing and logistics, whatever.

Not to mention, something that works needs to be done with the urban school districts - to effectively serve current students and demographics, NOT just to attract the middle class.

I'm not sure what caused the fall of industry and the working-class. Part of it is globalization and China, India, and other smaller countries, but I think there were other things at play here in this country that pushed those jobs away and whatever can be done to fix that needs to be. Unions need to be less greedy and entitled, corporations need to support their communities. The problem is now we have this dysfunctional population that needs jobs, but most companies even for the most unskilled jobs, don't want to deal with trying to basically raise and make responsible/dependable young men whose parents weren't able to do it.

It would be interesting if one could compare the unemployment rates of the populations living in the cities (or original portions of these cities) with the unemployment rate overall.

All of that said, I think old houses and all they entail - front porches, alleys, gridded/thru streets, walkabilty, etc. have sort of become stigmatized themselves as "ghetto", and even back around WWII when the suburbs took off, a house with a garage and everything suburban housing entails sort of became "prestigious". I've actually witnessed people think an area is ghetto just because it is old.

Anyway, to those who read this far, I guess I felt like hearing myself talk. There's some stuff to think about, take it or leave it, in regard to why central cities have lost their population.
I like this!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > St. Louis
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top