Why is the population of St. Louis less than half it was in 1950, and less now than in 1880? (Jennings: apartment, rent)

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by aragx6

^The county is not growing -- it's actually shrinking -- so it didn't take the city to "stifle growth" for the county.

Additionally, combining school districts is a whole other issue entirely. There are multiple school districts in Kansas City currently, so there's no resaon to suspect St. louis schools would see any revenue increases from reentering the county.

I still have a hard time imagining that St. Louis City would remain in its current state if it didn't merge with the county. The county is larger, wealthier, and even if it is shrinking, not nearly in the type of decline as the city...for a long time it was increasing in population.

[aragx6]

For a long time St. Louis increased in population as well. Then people started to move to the county. They're now doing the same thing with the collar counties.

I by no means am implying the county is in shambles or anything but they're dealing with many of the same struggles as the city -- aging population, poverty, aging infrastructure etc. etc. --and they're probably going to continue to struggle with that for the forseeable future.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by aragx6

For a long time St. Louis increased in population as well. Then people started to move to the county. They're now doing the same thing with the collar counties.

I by no means am implying the county is in shambles or anything but they're dealing with many of the same struggles as the city -- aging population, poverty, aging infrastructure etc. etc. --and they're probably going to continue to struggle with that for the forseeable future.

St. Louis County is one of the richer counties per capita in the United States. If poverty is a problem, it's not nearly to the extent of the city.

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

St. Louis County is one of the richer counties per capita in the United States. If poverty is a problem, it's not nearly to the extent of the city.

This comes across at pretty ignorant. Of course poverty is a problem in some parts of St. Louis County -- almost 15% of residents were living in poverty in 2009. A family of four is considered to be living in poverty if their household income is less than $22,113. Frankly that number is so low it gives me a sick feeling in my stomach -- I can't imagine trying to support myself on that, much less kids!

Per capita means it's an average and I think we all know there are some wildly rich people living in St. Louis county that force those numbers up.

Suburban poverty is on the rise all over the U.S. and in most cases, suburban areas do not have the resources necessary to help these people. It's going to continue to be an issue.

The past decade has marked the most significant rise in poverty in modern times. One in six people in the U.S. are poor, according to the latest census data, compared to one in ten Americans in 2004.

In the wake of the Great Recession, poverty rolls are rising at a more rapid pace in the suburbs than in cities or rural communities. Between 2000 and 2010, the number of suburban households below the poverty line increased by 53 percent, compared to a 23 percent increase in poor households in urban areas, according to a Brookings Institution analysis of census data.

America’s Best Kept Secret: Rising Suburban Poverty

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by aragx6

A family of four is considered to be living in poverty if their household income is less than $22,113. Frankly that number is so low it gives me a sick feeling in my stomach -- I can't imagine trying to support myself on that, much less kids!

A lot of folks are supporting themselves on $10-11 per hour. Housing being most folks biggest expense is the reason many (or most?) of the apartments in downtown KCMO are working-class (section 42) housing (in which one has to make below $28K as a single individual to qualify). Although outside of downtown that's not necessary. Living on that amount is actually quite doable, especially for a young person in their 20's. This is America, and it's cheap. The problem is entitlement. Some people don't know anything about used cars or used/repairing of anything. One person can get by on this pay, and eat well. If it's a couple, they can have a significant amount of disposable income if they so choose (provided they don't spend it on anything unnecessary, like bigger car payments, etc.). Trips out of the country can be afforded by a couple making these wages. Now, when it comes to kids, I have to agree with you. Although, with the programs liberals espouse, kids can be doable at those wages (or even less) and actually might be incentivized. Point is, if you're making considerably more than $22,113 per year, you should realize what you have. Money can go a LONG way here in America.

[aragx6]

^It's only $11,000 for a single person. The number I listed was a family of four with two kids. Have you ever lived on 11k? Somehow I doubt it.

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by aragx6

^It's only $11,000 for a single person. The number I listed was a family of four with two kids. Have you ever lived on 11k? Somehow I doubt it.

I see my mistake. But I also thought you said you couldn't see supporting yourself on $22,113.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

A lot of folks are supporting themselves on $10-11 per hour. Housing being most folks biggest expense is the reason many (or most?) of the apartments in downtown KCMO are working-class (section 42) housing (in which one has to make below $28K as a single individual to qualify). Although outside of downtown that's not necessary. Living on that amount is actually quite doable, especially for a young person in their 20's. This is America, and it's cheap. The problem is entitlement. Some people don't know anything about used cars or used/repairing of anything. One person can get by on this pay, and eat well. If it's a couple, they can have a significant amount of disposable income if they so choose (provided they don't spend it on anything unnecessary, like bigger car payments, etc.). Trips out of the country can be afforded by a couple making these wages. Now, when it comes to kids, I have to agree with you. Although, with the programs liberals espouse, kids can be doable at those wages (or even less) and actually might be incentivized. Point is, if you're making considerably more than $22,113 per year, you should realize what you have. Money can go a LONG way here in America.

This is not 1955 buddy! I would assert that anything below $27,000/yr for a single person is poverty wages. When you figure in the rising cost of living, decreasing wages, health care costs, the disconnect between transportation and housing in most metropolitan areas etc. etc. etc. $500/week doesn't go very far. Not to mention the unexpected costs that are out of your control like accidents, sickness etc. The fact is a money doesn't go very far at all!

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

I see my mistake. But I also thought you said you couldn't see supporting yourself on $22,113.

Honestly? I can't. I'm certain it could be done of course, but I've never had a salary of anything near there and as such it's pretty hard to imagine.

And I think it would be exceedingly difficult: On 22k a year you'd be struggling to pay $500 a month for rent. Saving would be nearly impossible and your car is likely to be a money-sucking POS. Definitely not an easy life. But with two kids? That is what makes me sick to my stomach.

I was pretty poor as a kid after my parents split up, although my mom worked hard to keep up appearances, and poverty is something that scares me more than any boogeyman.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

I see my mistake. But I also thought you said you couldn't see supporting yourself on $22,113.

$22,000 is poverty wages in a major metropolitan area. Try living on that in Los Angeles, New York, or Chicago. Hell even St. Louis! Your quality of live would go down tremendously!

$22,000 is a little over $400 a week. Most people eat that in a month. Get real! Two paychecks to pay your rent with utilities. People are getting crushed in America. There are hardly any good paying jobs even with a degree.