The knock out game and the spirit of the times.... (homes, neighborhoods)

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by flynavyj

stlouisan, pretty sure i quoted you accurately in my post #16. Here's an excerpt.

"What I also find shocking is that blacks, generally the people engaged in this "knockout game", are generally venturing outside of their own boundaries..."

maybe it's not what you meant, but i wasn't adding anything extra to your comment. Maybe you should ensure what you're typing is clear before you hit 'post'.

As to chain gangs being cruel and unusual, i'd totally disagree. Good performance for the potential of parole sounds great, letting "chain gangs" clean up the city streets sounds great too. Imagine a group of inmates, on a daily basis picking up trash, scrubbing sidewalks, planting flowers, trees, etc and beautifying some of the more crime ridden areas on the Northside. Do you think watching last week's "crime lord" sweeping the street might do anything to deter some random youth from pursuing a life of crime?

I think to many urban youth, crime is seen as a way to elevate one's status. It's a means to income and respect amongst others. The criminals who get nabbed are most likely seen by many whom look up to them as "folks who are being tougher than the system". I'm sure upon release most inmates say to those under them in gang life "the joint can't break me, i broke the joint!"...but I'd bet seeing a criminal on a chain gang saying "Boss, mind if I take a pee?" would take any idea of glamor, or glorification out of the eyes of impressionable youth.

I do generally tend to think that youths who commit crimes definitely take advantage of their minor status. I think those who choose abuse to the degree these kids are need to have adult consequences. Generally, if they are mentally broken down as youths, they will likely be less resistant to change when they are older. Letting them get off lightly on crimes like this is likely only going to make them more violent as adults, because they've seen they can push the boundaries and get away with it. I can certainly tell you that it is much harder to change in your mid-20s versus being under the age of 18.

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

I do generally tend to think that youths who commit crimes definitely take advantage of their minor status. I think those who choose abuse to the degree these kids are need to have adult consequences. Generally, if they are mentally broken down as youths, they will likely be less resistant to change when they are older. Letting them get off lightly on crimes like this is likely only going to make them more violent as adults, because they've seen they can push the boundaries and get away with it. I can certainly tell you that it is much harder to change in your mid-20s versus being under the age of 18.

And you think the goal of our prisons is to change behavior? You believe they are successfully rehabilitating its occupants?

[stlcitygirl]

While I think this knockout game is horrific, I dont think its a sign of the times. There were guys in my highschool in the 90's that did stuff like this.

[flynavyj]

Originally Posted by aragx6

I actually agree with a fair amount of your post, but I take issue with this line. It's pretty ironic to say, for the specific purposes of this argument, that these kids have access to education when most of us wouldn't send our beloved family dogs to any of the neighborhood (non-magnet) city schools.

Totally understand your point Aragx, but I think many of the education problems associated with under performing schools can be attributed to students and parental involvement. I do believe there are poor teachers around, and administrators who only care about collecting a paycheck. But in the better performing school districts these faculty and administration officials would have their feet held to the fire by the parents, and the boards would expect results.

I'm sure socioeconomic situations bear pretty heavy on parental involvement in a school, and that makes logical sense. The more you work, the less time you have to be involved in extra activities. That being said a person has to put a value on their child's education and motivating your child with goals and expectations is an principle pillar of good parenting.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by aragx6

And you think the goal of our prisons is to change behavior? You believe they are successfully rehabilitating its occupants?

I didn't have prisons in mind when I said that statement. I was speaking about the average human being. The goal of prisons SHOULD be to change behavior. And no, I don't think they are successfully rehabilitating occupants, however, they certainly do keep dangerous people off the streets for a certain period of time, which I guess is somewhat of a start...not really though.

[flynavyj]

well, i pray that the people committing these crimes are NOT the average human being. If they're the "average", we're a pretty sad species.

As far as I'm concerned, the #1 job of a prison should be to take bad people off the street so the rest of us can live in peace...their secondary function should be attempting to find ways for these individuals to productively re-enter society.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by flynavyj

well, i pray that the people committing these crimes are NOT the average human being. If they're the "average", we're a pretty sad species.

As far as I'm concerned, the #1 job of a prison should be to take bad people off the street so the rest of us can live in peace...their secondary function should be attempting to find ways for these individuals to productively re-enter society.

No, I don't consider those people average human beings. The prisons are doing number one just fine...they're not doing number two correctly though, which is actually compromising number one. We're doing a great job of filling up our prisons, but a terrible job at bringing these offenders out as reformed people.

[1greatcity]

Seems like more often than not, prison changes a person for the worse. Which is understandable. When a person is living surrounded by immoral hardened criminals 24/7, it's going to rub off.
Back to topic...
The mentality of someone who participates in this so-called game is frightening: No fear of being caught. Thinks it's funny. Doesn't care about the victim because they're strangers. No conscience. Boasts about it. This perfectly describes the sort of individual that needs to be removed from society. Put in solitary confinement indefinately.

[BoomBoxing]

This behavior is a textbook definition of being a psychopath. Lack of empathy, boredom, resmorselessness, impulsivity, etc.

[aragx6]

^If they were grown adults, sure. But frankly, I haven't met too many teenageers who haven't exhibited all four of those characteristics.

Add peer pressure into the mix, and kids will do just about anything.