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Old 01-07-2012, 09:36 PM
 
Location: rural North Carolina
272 posts, read 730,518 times
Reputation: 334

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The assumption of these "ranking" threads is that cities can be objectively measured and that the results mean something to those living there or considering living there. Both assumptions are wrong. Objectivity is very difficult to achieve because of the impossibility of removing bias. "Just reporting the facts." Really? What makes these facts? Where they appeared? What criteria is used for these facts?

The second assumption is that the results are meaningful to an individual living there. My first year at school I moved to Chicago. I had a miserable time, my girlfriend was assaulted on a Rodger's Park beach, and I ended up having to be rescued by my parents. Do I blame Chicago for my experience? Nope; I still think it's a great city.

You can be miserable in Paradise; you can also be happy in Hell. One of the places I was happiest was living in one of the poorest countries in the world. I had a wonderful experience there, yet statistically the country is one of the poorest, most dangerous places on the planet.

If you hate St. Louis, move. No one is pointing a gun at your head to stay or spout how wonderful it is. I hated it too which is why I left it and haven't lived there in almost a quarter century. But after being away from it I realized that the city isn't dying, and that it wasn't the cultural backwater I had thought it when I was growing up. I still have no plans to return to live there again; I'm quite content where I am today. But after a quarter century I've learned what my problem with STL is and what is simply my personal baggage. Most of my problems are the latter; St. Louis is innocent.

As for throwing grenades like this post, you might want to find a different hobby. You're not saying anything useful or particular helpful to anyone.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Saint Louis City
1,563 posts, read 3,575,066 times
Reputation: 648
I think everyone on this thread has some great points. For every negative list, there is a positive list. I'm not from St Louis, but I have chosen time and time again to stay here. I suggest the OP step away from the computer, put down the "pile you are building" and go to laumeier sculpture park and enjoy what STL has to offer.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,063 posts, read 29,562,508 times
Reputation: 3777
I feel bad for chicagoerin; I really do. She's been spreading her miserable for a long time here -- there must be a lot to go around.

The irony I have always found with her, and I've definitely posted it before, is that she spends a great deal of time detailing how poor St. Louis' economy is at the same time as bemoaning the fact that her job forces her to be here -- how, exactly, can it be both?

I also love her recent technique of simply creating a post and then never even bothering to come back by and counter our arguments or restate her case. It's trolling and nothing else.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:35 AM
 
1,783 posts, read 3,611,337 times
Reputation: 1382
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
I also love her recent technique of simply creating a post and then never even bothering to come back by and counter our arguments or restate her case. It's trolling and nothing else.
LOL I know what are we, 12? This is a discussion board not a "Post your inane opinion and disappear into the abyss board". I think adding such a stupid disclaimer should be against the TOS since the intent is simply to rile people up and not actually participate in a discussion.

But the most frustrating thing is her lack of reading comprehension. Nobody ever said her sources for these lists aren't legitimate. The only thing people have said is that the political boundaries great exacerbate St. Louis' ranking on these lists. It's been said to her 1000 times over and yet she still acts like we're just trying to discredit her source.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:51 AM
 
372 posts, read 563,768 times
Reputation: 291
Also what is sad is the attempt to justify a personal opinion with internet top 10 lists. Its like she is not comfortable with her own opinion and wants to demonstrate to everyone just how right she is.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:08 AM
 
101 posts, read 286,051 times
Reputation: 89
I'm really conflicted when I see these polls. On one hand, is it fair to rank STL as 'worst place for ???" when you don't include St. Louis County? But on the other hand, if I'm looking to move to St. Louis city, then the statistics matter. What are the schools like? Doesn't matter to me that some county schools may be the greatest, my kids would be going to St. Louis City schools. Do I need to pretty much count on my house or car getting broken into? Do I need to get a CCW and associated firearms to protect myself? I may not need that in Chesterfield, but in South St. Louis???? Maybe. The stats and graphics are available at the police department website.

Walkability may be great, but if I can't walk after dark, what's the point?

On the other hand, great restaurants, lots of things to do, good sports, a more "established" feel, a feeling of being in a city with "life" -- Yeah, that's the good part. Maybe the other negatives don't bother me as much, in the 15 years, since I moved away I've lived in L.A. Asia, (small town of about 9 million) Puerto Rico (now there's some crime stats for you) and finally moved back to the area.

Yes, it's changed some for the worse, some for the better. Is it the most miserable place to be? IMHO Not by a long shot. Is STL the best run town in the U.S.? IMHO Not by a long shot either. Am I itching to leave? no, Darn happy to be back!

As I said, really conflicted!
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,063 posts, read 29,562,508 times
Reputation: 3777
But I think one of the key points is that because St. Louis' true city limits are itty bitty unlike say Kansas City (where I live now), there's no reason you can't live a walkable lifestyle out of those limits and send your kids to MRH, Clayton or U City. And I'm still very impressed by the number of solid magnets and charters I would consider sending my (as of yet nonexistent) children to.

Can I ask in what areas that are considered walkable you don't feel safe walking at night? I can't personally think of any.
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 34,335,378 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagoerin View Post
If there is a best/worst list coming out, it's a safe assumption that St. Louis will be featured on the "worst" list. The bad news for St. Louis keeps coming in. The latest are: "7th Worst Run City" and ""Worst Place to find a Job" Both from credible sources (Forbes comes to mind) with hard stats to back it up (Mentioned since the regular defenders seem to think that St. Louis gets picked on for no reason by sources that should be ignored.. "Who would read that?")

http://news.yahoo.com/10-best-worst-run-cities-america-014228518.html



St Louis
Violent crime per 1,000 people: 17.47 (2nd highest)
Poverty rate: 27.8 percent (13th highest)
Credit rating: AA3 (stable outlook)
Population: 319,156

St. Louis has had a hard time controlling violent crime. With 17.47 incidents per 1,000 residents in 2010, the city has the second highest rate of violent crime in the country. This is due in part to the city’s high poverty rate of 27.8 percent and its median income of $32,688, which is the 10th lowest out of the 100 largest cities. Additionally, nearly 20 percent of housing units in the city are vacant. All of these measures influence government revenues.
Despite this, St. Louis has managed its finances fairly well. While Moody’s credit score is AA3, the credit agency also reports that the city faces a continued weakening of resident income levels, high unemployment rates and a decreasing population.

Most Miserable:
http://realestate.msn.com/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=23468266


Worst for finding a job:
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/260358/20111202/10-worst-cities-job-hunting-america.htm

I am keeping a list for my family, in case I get any grief when I tell them we are moving in 1.5 years. I don't think they will have any objections, as we have all lived elsewhere and think St. Louis is a dying city, but just in case. I thought I would share it here for anyone who might be interested. As usual, I will not respond to any slams or comments from the regulars. Just reporting the facts.
I would hardly call you impartial.....you seem to be posting this just to cause trouble.
Go back to Chicago already.
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:25 PM
 
Location: South St Louis
4,242 posts, read 3,956,981 times
Reputation: 2834
A similar thread in the Chicago forums about city rankings was just locked. Which is fine. And I suggest this one be locked as well. We've pretty much established that the OP was trolling.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:41 PM
 
101 posts, read 286,051 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
But I think one of the key points is that because St. Louis' true city limits are itty bitty unlike say Kansas City (where I live now), there's no reason you can't live a walkable lifestyle out of those limits and send your kids to MRH, Clayton or U City. And I'm still very impressed by the number of solid magnets and charters I would consider sending my (as of yet nonexistent) children to.

Can I ask in what areas that are considered walkable you don't feel safe walking at night? I can't personally think of any.
I'd say for now the places I WOULD feel safe (in the city limits) Dogtown, The Hill. Certain areas of CWE. I guess some areas of Laclede's landing, although some employees of establishments in the area say not so much.

Don't know enough about the loft district, Soulard, Lafayette Square to say either way for now.

Don't get me wrong, I really like "the city" and was looking for place in the city limits, but other factors lead us over to the Illinois side, closer to work and such. Boring as heck though.
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