Excited but nervous, moving to St. Louis soon (Kirkwood, Webster Groves: rentals, condo)

[jencarroll01]

To the OP, I am also moving to STL this summer and my husband and I have pretty much the same kind of wish list as you do. We share a car and prefer to walk for daily errands as we did when we lived abroad. We also have one school aged child so this is a factor for us as well. We have done a ton of research and like a bunch of different areas, so I thought I'd share what we think so far. BTW, we are planning to rent, not to buy.

Due to the poor reputation of STL public schools, we were going to move to Clayton, U City, or Richmond Heights for their public school system. Our son has since gotten accepted into a charter school within city limits, so we are looking for something within city limits.

We really loved the feel of the Lafayette Square neighborhood. It has beautiful buildings and a handful of local businesses and restaurants, and a lovely park in the center of the neighborhood. We like the proximity to Soulard for the farmer's market and the residential, non-industrial feel. We didn't love that there is not a real option for grocery shopping on foot, and it is not really within walking distance to the metrolink. However, it is a lovely neighborhood and we are not ruling it out despite the metrolink/grocery store thing. We toured the Lofts at Lafayette (very nice) and the Wire Works Lofts (loved).

We also really love Tower Grove Heights/Tower Grove South. Tower Grove Park is great and very popular, and there are a lot of cool ethnic restaurants and local businesses on South Grand. There is an organic grocery on Morganford, but I am not sure about walking to a large grocery store. Hopefully someone will weigh in on this. The buildings are older and very charming, and the neighborhood is well-liked. We don't love the higher crime rates in this area, although they seem to be crimes of opportunity like car break-ins and some theft from properties. We would feel safe on the 2nd or 3rd floor in this neighborhood, and my impression from people here is that it's a safe neighborhood when you use common sense.

We also really like Shaw for the reasons we like TGS. It seems to be a little cheaper and not as desirable as TGS, and apparently closer to the park is better.

We like the CWE, it feels a bit like New York or Boston to me, but it is more expensive than the other neighborhoods. It is very close to all amenities and is quite popular, and is a contender for us. We especially liked the Towne House Apartments and the President/Park Royal Apartments, both on Lindell. They each had their pros and cons, but were very nice (and accept dogs).

We visited some lofts on Washington Avenue and just didn't love the feel of the area. To us, it felt deserted, and seemed run down. Granted we only saw a few lofts in the Post Office Square area, but from our internet search we thought those would be the most promising. They felt depressing to me. We don't drink and are in our 40s, so we're not looking for proximity to bars or clubs. We prefer green spaces with a more laid back, "granola" vibe. We've been told that Soulard has some very funky areas that we might like, but we didn't really feel it there, either.

So, for us the top 3 areas are TGS, Lafayette Square, and Shaw. The CWE could work but might be too expensive for us. We are just going to decide based on the specific rental property that we find.

Hope this helps, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you think!

-jen

[billiken]

Originally Posted by scocar

One thing to note. Your price point will be difficult to find in Webster Groves. It's not impossible, but there are not that many choices in your preferred price range. We are renting right now. We found a 1300 sq. foot, 3 bedroom house for $995 per month. But we only have 1 bath, and the location is not that great as we are right on the corner of two of the busier streets in Webster Groves. I would venture a guess that if our house were on a quiter street it would have gone for around $1100. We are looking to possible buy when our lease runs up in August. Most of the houses we are looking at that have 3+ bedrooms, and 2 bathrooms start at about $275,000. If you are able to find anything larger than a 2 bedroom in Webster Groves for around $200,000 it will probably be a fixer-upper.

I would suggest looking at Brentwood, Richmond Heights, and Rock Hill as well. They all border Webster Groves and you will find far more homes in your price range. $200,000 just won't go very far in Webster Groves or Kirkwood. It won't go very far in Central West End either for that matter.

200k easily gets you a 3bd/1bath ranch though in WG/Rock Hill/Kirkwood, and smaller 3/2s in a lot of cases that need some updating. The larger homes are up there, though.

[billiken]

Originally Posted by jencarroll01

We also really love Tower Grove Heights/Tower Grove South. Tower Grove Park is great and very popular, and there are a lot of cool ethnic restaurants and local businesses on South Grand. There is an organic grocery on Morganford, but I am not sure about walking to a large grocery store. Hopefully someone will weigh in on this.

There's a Schnucks on Grand & Gravois, it's ehh IMO (better than the one on Lindell in CWE), and another one off Arsenal past Tower Grove Park, which might be more convenient if you live closer to Morganford. There's also a Shop & Save off Gravois, but I've never shopped there.

[mike0421]

We had our eyes out on this one in Kirkwood:
231 West Monroe Avenue #205, Kirkwood MO | MLS# 12003949 - Trulia

And wish we could move on it now. To the OP, I would give this one a good look, it's right off of Kirkwood Road, and it's an adorable condominium complex.

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by billiken

There's a Schnucks on Grand & Gravois, it's ehh IMO (better than the one on Laclede in CWE), and another one off Arsenal past Tower Grove Park, which might be more convenient if you live closer to Morganford. There's also a Shop & Save off Gravois, but I've never shopped there.

Billiken,

ANY Schnuck's is better than the one on Laclede in CWE. I actually will drive further to the Schnuck's on Clayton Road in Richmond Heights just to avoid that depressing store.

[billiken]

Originally Posted by mike0421

Billiken,

ANY Schnuck's is better than the one on Laclede in CWE. I actually will drive further to the Schnuck's on Clayton Road in Richmond Heights just to avoid that depressing store.

It's unfortunate, since CWE is otherwise a very walking-friendly area. I would regularly see people passed out in the aisles of that store, and the employees didn't seem to care ("Yeah, that happens...."). Straub's is just too expensive. I used to take the MetroLink to the Dierbergs in Brentwood instead.

[flynavyj]

When the time comes to purchase, size will be your obstacle at your given price point. Luckily, the market sucks, so folks will negotiate a little bit to get out. A quick search netted about 7 homes between 150-200k, in Webster, Glendale, and Rockhill. If you're going to rent for a bit, you can always check out the CWE too, as stated, it's a pretty neat neighborhood with much at your doorstep.

I think the walkability is often an argument for city living, but a somewhat unfortunate thing for St. Louis is that many neighborhoods, both city and county are somewhat car dependent...at a minimum for SOME of the activities. Take me, I live out in St. Ann, MO it's truly suburbia as planned out in the 1940's. The vast majority of stuff around is not really within walking distance, however I can get to the biggest park in my city, a small grocery market, and a deli/ice cream place that has great gyros all within a short 1 block walk. But if i lived within a half mile of either direction, i'd lose many of those conveniences...the same is going to be true for many of the places in St. Louis City and the rest of the county.

What really sets places like Kirkwood and Webster Groves away from many other locations within St. Louis County is that they both have functioning and very active downtown districts combined with fantastic school districts and some unique architecture characteristics.

[Chadro77]

I didn't see if it was mentioned but if you decide on Webster Groves make sure you don't look North of Kirkham Ave./Brentwood Blvd. Not a very good area.

[flynavyj]

Originally Posted by Chadro77

I didn't see if it was mentioned but if you decide on Webster Groves make sure you don't look North of Kirkham Ave./Brentwood Blvd. Not a very good area.

That side of Webster would probably be the least desirable in the city of Webster Groves, but could prove somewhat promising for a person on a shoestring budget. The homes are typically very small compared to the Eastern portion of WG, and the demographics are heavily African American. I've heard of some racism North of Kirkham but haven't spent enough time over there to give you or anyone else a valid or truthful opinion of it. Looking at google street views, it seems "ok", and according to a quick Prustl.com search, you can get 2 br 1 ba homes for less than $100,000.

In terms of long term investment, I'd imagine it has some potential. Only because Webster Groves and their school district (along with others that neighbor WG, are desirable, and will likely remain so. As such, young families wanting to locate to the area might find homes North of Kirkham to be desirable enough to get them into a respected school district, and higher income families move in, prices will undoubtedly increase.

You could also bet on the fact of owning the cheapest home in the area. There will always be people looking to send their kids to good schools, and there are always people with limited budgets...some of those homes might turn out easier to sell than the $750,000 home on the other side of Kirkham.

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by billiken

It's unfortunate, since CWE is otherwise a very walking-friendly area. I would regularly see people passed out in the aisles of that store, and the employees didn't seem to care ("Yeah, that happens...."). Straub's is just too expensive. I used to take the MetroLink to the Dierbergs in Brentwood instead.

And that Dierbergs in Brentwood is a DAMN fine store. And largely vacant. The only rationale behind that is the Trader Joe's and World Market adjacent to it, as well as Target that also sells lower rate groceries.