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Old 07-23-2012, 03:03 PM
 
Location: South St Louis
4,357 posts, read 4,523,803 times
Reputation: 3144

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Although their methods have sometimes led to controversy, I still applaud the people who try to improve St. Louis. I'm talking about everyone from Father Biondi to Rev. Larry Rice, from Peter Raven to Bob Cassilly, from Paul McKee to the Roberts Brothers. They have all, in some way, helped weave the fabric of the city. They've been, like it or not, a part of the transformation that continues today. I'm just thankful that there are people who have a real interest in St. Louis and its people.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Paris
1,773 posts, read 2,657,536 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitko View Post
Y'all forget - New Madrid seismic area. As much risk of releasing, and causing good ol' St. Louis to crumble into old brick and mortar piles, as the Cascadia Subduction Zone and the Juan de Fuca plate have on Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver.

Unlike those much cooler temperature and cleaner air PacNW spaces, MO-state nor St. Louis mandate much in the way of seismic codes for new or retrofitting old construction.

Risks you live with.
Hmm, haven't seen much of your posts but this is the second, odd, troll-like post in a row... Out of all the negativity someone could try to bring to this thread aimed at highlighting progress and moving forward, this is what you picked?
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Paris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
I hate to say never, but there will "never" be a need for a 1000 ft office tower in downtown St. Louis not in my expected lifetime at least. 1) Too much available land in DT and DTW St. Louis. 2) Not enough demand as the commercial office market is fragmented between Clayton, 270 and DT to a very high degree, and 3) the only reason to build something that tall is due to land scarcity/prices, and even then, it is usually much more economical to build 60 to 80 storey buildings. There are only a half dozen markets in the US with any sort of economic justification to build a tower that tall, and half of those probably have no real reason to do so.
How long is your expected lifetime? While I agree with your analysis, most of it anyways, in general the future isn't exactly certain. At the beginning of the last century St. Louis was the 4th largest city in the US and hosting events like the World's Fair and Olympics, mid-century Detroit is booming with the auto industry, late century sun-belt boom, etc. Point being, there could be big changes.

Your third point I have some issues with. Maybe those are the correct/best reasons to do it, but they certainly get built for other reasons. I couldn't help but think of Dubai as pride, identity and recognition were being brought up as background. Heck, look at all the attention OKC's Devon Tower got... (844ft now, originally planned 925ft)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdm_ad View Post
Personally I would rather see a couple of 700 ft towers go up than one giant tower. I think that would create a better skyline and, depending on the placement, help balance out the 2 tall towers we currently have and expand the footprint of downtown itself. I used to drive thru Atlanta back in the 80s and 90s and the change was dramatic once they added a few new buildings. I would love to see the same thing here but obviously some demand for office space downtown would need to take place before anything happens.
Agreed, I'd def prefer several more in the 500-700 range to thicken things up and go with the few others in that range before a super-tall.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:13 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,442 posts, read 6,964,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
I hate to say never, but there will "never" be a need for a 1000 ft office tower in downtown St. Louis not in my expected lifetime at least. 1) Too much available land in DT and DTW St. Louis. 2) Not enough demand as the commercial office market is fragmented between Clayton, 270 and DT to a very high degree, and 3) the only reason to build something that tall is due to land scarcity/prices, and even then, it is usually much more economical to build 60 to 80 storey buildings. There are only a half dozen markets in the US with any sort of economic justification to build a tower that tall, and half of those probably have no real reason to do so.
There is too much empty or under-used office space downtown right now. I'm no real estate expert at all, but my firm is studying options with our lease in Clayton up in a couple of years and they are throwing deals to try to lure you downtown. It is much cheaper per square foot than Clayton.

I cant imagine any new towers, giant or otherwise, going up downtown for the foreseeable future. I'd rather see downtown continue to develop the existing structures in new ways, such as the new SLU law building and the newer cupples space near the stadium I just walked by this weekend going to a Cardinal game, or smaller new stuff mixed retail/commercial like ball park village or the like.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:52 PM
 
395 posts, read 647,602 times
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The last spec office building downtown was Met Sq. 1989, The Eagleton Courthouse (last tall building)was 2001 (it was started in 1995 talk about long construction time) the S&L scandel in the late 80's early 90's killed the spec market in slow growth markets. The only way downtown gets a new office building is if some company has a vanity fit and wants the image, and that is just not how corporate America is thinking these days.

That being said SLU LS move downtown will add a lot of activity in the center. Rehabs of Arcade and Chemical will happen sooner rather then later, Wells Fargo is moving 400 jobs from Minni to STL, 555 Washington is about to get some absorbtion.

Watch what ATT does, they have a bunch of vacant space in their complex, it could a very good thing... or a very bad thing.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
3,483 posts, read 8,959,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl View Post
I couldn't help but think of Dubai as pride, identity and recognition were being brought up as background...
Thought about Dubai myself, but let those thoughts go out the window because there's one vast difference...they have money, we don't. For the typical American corporation, i'm willing to say "image" is third, forth, or fifth on their "most important" list...number one will be return on investment, and while image is important, it's typically cheaper to buy some billboards, or do some fancy advertisements than it will be to build a mega-story office complex...just not where the country is looking right now, specifically in terms of business finance.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:34 PM
 
Location: South St Louis
4,357 posts, read 4,523,803 times
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The latest on the twin outlet malls of Chesterfield: Both projects have broken ground, both have a long list of tenants lined up, and both are determined to succeed. Although it is unusual, St. Louis wouldn't be the only city with two outlet malls. Orlando, for example, has two.
So it's entirely possible that both malls could co-exist. Especially if Chesterfield and the St. Louis area does some heavy self-promotion to lure tourists. With the two outlet malls, the enormous Chesterfield Commons area, plus Chesterfield Mall, that area might actually thrive as a Midwest shopping mecca.
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
1,912 posts, read 4,668,544 times
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I think it would maybe be more reasonable to have 2 if they weren't so close together.
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Tampa - St. Louis
1,270 posts, read 2,166,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billiken View Post
I think it would maybe be more reasonable to have 2 if they weren't so close together.
Would have like to see one in Union Station.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Paris
1,773 posts, read 2,657,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1greatcity View Post
The latest on the twin outlet malls of Chesterfield: Both projects have broken ground, both have a long list of tenants lined up, and both are determined to succeed. Although it is unusual, St. Louis wouldn't be the only city with two outlet malls. Orlando, for example, has two.
So it's entirely possible that both malls could co-exist. Especially if Chesterfield and the St. Louis area does some heavy self-promotion to lure tourists. With the two outlet malls, the enormous Chesterfield Commons area, plus Chesterfield Mall, that area might actually thrive as a Midwest shopping mecca.
What about the Mills? That's still an outlet mall right? Both way out in Chesterfield makes me a bit less excited though city wise...
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