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My husband and I have been contemplating a move to St. Louis for a few years now, but are starting to research the idea a little more seriously. We are starting to look into the real estate market for different areas, schools, etc... I have spent several months in St. Louis, primarily in Kirkwood and Webster Groves. We really like both of these areas, because we would love to be in an area where we can walk to stores, restaurants, parks, etc... and both of these have good school systems from what I have read (we have a one-year-old daughter, so we're thinking about that, but it's not a pressing issue for now). My main question is, are there other areas that are similar to Kirkwood and Webster that we might be overlooking? Key points being walkability, good schools, family friendly, parks close by, safe, etc...?? Would parts of Clayton fit this? If so, where specifically? Is there a section of U City that is similar? My husband currently works from home, so location/commute isn't a major issue for now. We live just outside of New York City now, so we are used to an urban setting, but we are looking to slow and settle down a bit...though we would still like to find an accessible and active community/neighborhood (i.e. I don't think we want to do total suburbia where people aren't out and about much and you have to drive to get everywhere!).
When it comes to walkability, both Clayton and University City flourish. However, when it comes to school ranking, University City fails in comparison to Clayton, Webster Groves and Kirkwood.
The one town (outside of the city proper) that has a cute downtown is Maplewood, but the school quality here middles between Kirkwood and University City. There are other towns that have better school testing scores such as Brentwood, but the 'walkability' factor suffers.
If I might ask, where do you currently live just outside of NYC? I am originally from New Jersey, and I think you will find a lot of similarities here, except the metro will be a much smaller scale. That means instead of wading through 40 miles of shopping malls into the outer burbs, here it's about half that distance. There's about 2.8 million people in the St. Louis MSA, where as in contrast the NYC area is about 19 million. This really impacts your perception of scale and population dispersion.
My husband and I have been contemplating a move to St. Louis for a few years now, but are starting to research the idea a little more seriously. We are starting to look into the real estate market for different areas, schools, etc... I have spent several months in St. Louis, primarily in Kirkwood and Webster Groves. We really like both of these areas, because we would love to be in an area where we can walk to stores, restaurants, parks, etc... and both of these have good school systems from what I have read (we have a one-year-old daughter, so we're thinking about that, but it's not a pressing issue for now). My main question is, are there other areas that are similar to Kirkwood and Webster that we might be overlooking? Key points being walkability, good schools, family friendly, parks close by, safe, etc...?? Would parts of Clayton fit this? If so, where specifically? Is there a section of U City that is similar? My husband currently works from home, so location/commute isn't a major issue for now. We live just outside of New York City now, so we are used to an urban setting, but we are looking to slow and settle down a bit...though we would still like to find an accessible and active community/neighborhood (i.e. I don't think we want to do total suburbia where people aren't out and about much and you have to drive to get everywhere!).
Thanks for any advice!!
Julie
I think Clayton would definatley fit the profile except (i) the housing cost is higher even than Kirkwood/Webster; and (ii) the downtown area is more office space oriented than cutesy small downtown like Kirkwood/webster and with that the traffic kind of zooms around during the week. I work in Clayton and saw a high school kid recently riding his bike through morning traffic, presumably on his way to Clayton High, and it struck me how dangerous that seemed, but maybe that's just me.
As the other poster said, the problem from my perspective with UCity is the quality of the school district really drops down. Although not a dangerous area in my opinion, you might also expect a little more in the property crime/petty crime area than might be expected in Kirkwood/Webster. I guess the benefit of UCity is the more funky, progressive type eating/drinking establishments and the younger hipster crowd that you would have access to by foot in the loop area if that is important to you.
If you want walkability AND a good public school district, you should try to find a home in or near the downtown areas of Kirkwood, Webster Groves, or Maplewood. St. Charles and Belleville, IL also have downtown areas but they're both way out from the city center so those might not be the best option. Clayton is probably your best bet due to its high walkability and great MetroLink access, but it's also really expensive.
The way I see it, you have just about nailed the best options - Webster Groves, Kirkwood, and Clayton. Anywhere within walking distance of Old Webster Groves downtown is 'money-in-the-bank' on your criteria (I suppose Gray and Lockwood would be the epicenter of Old Webster Groves downtown). Same with Kirkwood (Kirkwood & Adams being the center). In Clayton, you have a couple nice neighborhood options-- Old Town (look along Central between Forsyth and Maryland - that's the retail strip, the neighborhood just north of there is the residential area adjacent to it, and it is about as high price as St. Louis gets on a cost per square foot basis), DeMun (along Demun Ave, just east of Concordia Park - quaint, lots of high rise apartments nearby so probably a bit younger on average), and I suppose one could also argue the small retail district at Wydown and Hanley also has a handful of shops and things to do, though not nearly as much as Old Town or De Mun. As for U City, it has exactly what you seek except for the top rated schools. A lot of folks will send their kids through 5th grade and then pull out in middle school. Having said that, my favorite "walkable" area of all is Parkview and Ames Place subdivisions in U City (pretty much the area bounded by Delmar, Forest Park Parkway, Skinker, and Big Bend)- very close to the Loop district along Delmar, which is about as full service and walkable an area as there is here, apart from arguably the Central West End, which is in the city proper. I would suggest you check out all of these areas before you make a choice.
Thank you so much, everyone...this info. is so helpful and exactly what I was looking for! We are hoping to spend some time in town this Summer, so I'm looking forward to checking out some different areas.
I only remember driving through the more corporate feeling area of Clayton, so I'm curious to drive around there more...though it does look very pricey in comparison to some other areas.
So, the downtown area of Maplewood has a similar feel to Kirkwood and Webster?
I did also spend about a month in the Central West End many years ago, and really enjoyed it, but remember mostly the more brownstone-ish style of homes, and then the giant historic mansions on the park...is there something in between that is still walkable to the main shop/restaurant area over there? I was also wondering if that area is as family friendly as some of the other burbs?...and then there is the school issue...
Same thing with University City, I suppose...I really like the Loop area for shopping etc., but am wondering what the residential feel is like over there? This is another area I need to explore more...
Anyway...thanks again, as this will definitely help guide our searching.
Oh, Mike0421, we live in Hoboken now...pretty close to the middle of the 12.9 million, so the smaller scale is definitely appealing! We do really like the feel of Hoboken though (small community feel but with a lot to do), so I guess we are looking for something sort of similar, but with more space and fewer people!! Ha.
Maplewood has a good retail and entertainment area along Manchester (between Sutton and Southwest), that area seems to be on a distinct upward trajectory, but there are definitely some higher crime/lower income pockets in that area relative to the other areas you have already identified. I have no first-hand knowledge of the schools but they are mixed on paper-- I tend to perceive them similar to how Mike described above.
The CWE is beautiful, but raising kids there would be challenging on most budgets, because public schools are not an option for most (there is a magnet program which seems to work well for some folks, but not others).
U City is very family friendly.. tons of white collar professionals with kids, great parks, libraries, neat architecture and history, distinctly urban feel for an inner-ring because it basically is a continuation of the city proper in some ways. The average age is probably a bit younger than the other communities, because a lot of the young families (like mine) move to Clayton, Brentwood, Ladue, Richmond Heights, Webster, or Kirkwood when their kids reach school age. U City is known for having the most liberal constituency in the metro area, but is moderate by NYC standards, and the schools (I won't sugar coat here) pretty much suck past 5th grade. For all of its well-intended progressive idealism, U City is rigidly segregated-- the northern part is mostly working class African American, and the south is mostly upper-middle class whites.
U City also has an interesting comparison for home prices. If you want the small section south of Delmar, you're looking at close to $400k+, some can approach that $1million mark. North of Delmar but South of olive can range from the mid $100k to about $300k, and if you're North of Olive, you're easily in the low $100's and below.
I had seriously considered parts of U City South of Olive and North of Delmar, likely West of Midland. There were some great homes over that way around the $180k mark, I saw one on the market and was interested but it went under contact very quickly and was initially listed for about $160k...I saw it on the market about 6 or 7 months later, listed for $210k with a completely renovated interior...gorgeous two story on Shaftsbury by the High School.
For all of its well-intended progressive idealism, U City is rigidly segregated-- the northern part is mostly working class African American, and the south is mostly upper-middle class whites.
I think this is an issue for St. Louis as a whole. Sometimes the issues are economic in nature, but somehow it seems that many times the situation is deeper than that. If you look at North St. Louis City as being simply an issue of economics, i'd expect to see a fairly even spread between lower income individuals of all races, however the area is predominately African American, but holistically "poor". So while the economic is true and allows us to move the conversation past race, it might do so at the expense of addressing the other part of the problem.
Oh, Mike0421, we live in Hoboken now...pretty close to the middle of the 12.9 million, so the smaller scale is definitely appealing! We do really like the feel of Hoboken though (small community feel but with a lot to do), so I guess we are looking for something sort of similar, but with more space and fewer people!! Ha.
THANKS!!
I have friends in Hoboken, and have been there often. Some of them are old colleagues from Saint Louis, and they love both areas.
The reality is that you won't find anything awfully similar within STL, because of several other factors. Once obvious difference is the public transit system, which won't be the same. The METROLINK is great, but the stops are few and far between.. and sometimes quite inconvenient.
Therefore, just keep in mind that no parts of the city will be quite as walkable as what you are used to. That being said, lots of the city are perfect for nice strolls and bike rides. All of the suggestions above are spot on. I do agree that Maplewood really has some "positive energy" right now, so I would make sure to give that a look.
We just moved back into STL and settled into Benton Park. The density, architecture, and corner pub scene between Benton Park & Soulard remind us a lot of the major city feel (Chicago, NY, DC). Consider giving it a look as well, although parts of Soulard seem to skew a little young.
Hope everything in Hoboken is recovering well. I know it was hit quite hard. Pre-welcome to Saint Louis!
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