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Have seen a few threads on similar tops but I have some specific questions and was hoping I could draw on the collective wisdom on this group!
I am considering a move from NJ (Monmouth county) to STL. Looking for a change of pace and a quality of life uptick.
We are looking for a neighborhood with a reasonable commute to downtown (30 mins would be great). Good schools are an absolute must (3 kids in Elementary school). Looking for a nice neighborhood feel, preferably some shops/restaurants to walk to (not a dealbreaker more a nice to have). We like neighborhoods where you see people out and about, jogging, walking, kids playing etc. Not looking for anything pretentious or snobby...
Budget wise we are used to outrageous NJ prices and taxes(!) and would like to reduce that if we can so probably about 600k-700k
From some conversations I have had, I believe the following neighborhoods might fit the bill:
- Clayton
- Ladue
- Fronternac
- Kirkwood
- Webster Grove
Can anybody provide any more color on those choices? Has anybody done the NJ to STL move and how did that work out?
In terms of a couple of other questions we had
- Where do folks go at the weekend. From NJ we have the shore as a pretty popular weekend destination. People have second homes etc. Obviously there is no ocean, but are there lakes or other destinations that folks go to for the weekend?
- Kids soccer - my son & daughter are active soccer players (U10 & U8) - how is the soccer scene in STL? Where I am now there are good leagues, lots of professional training opportunities etc. Any expereence of that in STL?
OK - that seems like a ton of questions! Any help is very much aprpeciated
I think you are on the right track with places to check out. The big weekend destination for St. Louisans is the Lake of the Ozarks (often shortened to "the lake"). It is pretty nice for the most part, with some good restaurants and plenty of nooks and crannies for anchoring your boat and relaxing or partying.
Kids soccer is absolutely huge in St. Louis. It has one of the biggest youth soccer scenes in the country, with most kids playing through 8th grade and varisty teams being fairly selective. Most of the top varsity programs recruit out of the clubs, which is what I would recommend your kids being on if they are serious about soccer. St. Louis has long been a hotbed of soccer in the U.S. which is why it is pretty surprising there is no MLS team.
The 5 communities you listed are all the usual suspects for your price range and your commuting desires-- assuming you would work downtown? You pay a premium in all those areas for there centrality and their cache, so you would probably run into at least a little pretense (just an fyi), but that's okay.
Of the 5 you listed, Clayton is my favorite because it is walkable, densely populated, the most central, and has the most highly regarded public schools. It is also the area where you are likely to get the least bang for your buck - but the housing stock is older, mostly 1910-1930, so they are built to last, beautiful brick homes with postage stamp yards and beautiful mature tree lined streets. You can get a nicely maintained, 3 or 4 bed, 2 bath house (maybe 2200-2600 sf) in Clayton on your budget, but it may not be spectacularly remodeled.
Ladue and Frontenac also have great schools (Ladue), and the housing is much more varied and spread out - lots of 1 acre+ yards, few sidwalks, an idyllic setting where wealthy folks can have equestrian farms and tennis courts on their property. I bought a fixer in Ladue at the low end of the market and my kids are thriving at the schools. The commute from my area is also a piece of cake (5 minutes to downtown clayton, 15 to downtown St Louis traffic permitting). It is a bit isolated in the residential areas but if you like quiet (almost country like) surroundings in close to the heart of it all, Ladue/Frontenac is nice.
Webster and Kirkwood are similar in some regards, yet close-in Webster vs. far-out Kirkwood are very different. Older communities, each with their own quaint downtowns. Both with excellent school districts, but test scores favor Kirkwood. The housing in Webster is nice - old victorians - wide streets, very community driven, somewhat ecclectic. You could have a cool old 100 year house near old webster's downtown on your budget and that would be cool. Kirkwood has a lot of variety, and similar housing close to their central area, but more newer subdivisions especially in sections a bit further out.
I guess some people go to the lake for the weekend, but there are a lot of state parks nearby for hiking and outdoorsy stuff. Between kids activities and our own leisure pursuits, we rarely have the time for that kind of stuff.
Soccer? Oh yeah, it's very big here. Getting your kid onto a select team is almost an obsession for a lot of people. There are some serious clubs, and some less serious clubs. Scott Ghalagher and Lou Fusz have a lot of "A" teams. The Catholic teams are pretty impressive too. There are a lot of recreational options too if your kids aren't looking to get collegiate scholarships like some of these kids around here.
We moved from STL (Chesterfield) to Bergen County this summer. Honestly, it might take some getting used to, but I think you will enjoy living in the STL area. St. Louis is very pretty, has good retail shopping, pro sports (crazy baseball town) but it is not so big that it is overwhelming.
Clayton and Ladue are great suburbs, but I'm not sure you find much in your price range in either area. Kirkwood and Webster Groves will probably have more housing stock. No matter where you buy, you can be assured of lower propery taxes! New Jersey property taxes are insane. Ours almost quadrupled when we moved to BC.
Zach did a great job of describing the towns you are interested in. He also did a good job of explaining soccer. Everyone I knew who played soccer played through the CYC (Catholic). Contact the parish closest to you once you buy a house. One thing I wish I had known when we moved to STL is that the CYC has divisions (A - L depending on the grade). They don't tell you that on purpose, but if your kids are serious about soccer I would try to get them in a higher level. (A is the best). Serious soccer players also play for a club team in addition to their CYC team. My kids took developmental clinics through Lou Fusz. Both of the club teams Zach mentioned have web sites. Lou Fusz usually has their kick arounds in the summer.
There will not be as many day trips or long weekend trip options in Missouri compared to the NJ/NY area. However, there is enough in STL to keep you busy for a while. City Museum, Crown Candy Diner, Ted Drewes, the zoo and Forest Park, Cards games, River City Rascals games are some of my favorite things we did or places we visited when we lived in STL.
Festivals - Fair St. Louis, Clayton Art Fair, Taste of Clayton, Tast of St. Louis, St. Louis Art Fair, Mardi Gras, Oktober Fest, Muddy Blues Festival.
Outdoors - Hundreds of miles of trails for biking and jogging. Check out the Great Rivers Greenway and Katy Trail. We are a city of Parks. Check out Forest Park, Queeny Park, Creve Coeur Lake, Confluence, etc.
For the kids - Free or inexpensive Museums - St. Louis Zoo, Art Museum, History Museum, Science Center, City Museum, Magic House, Botanical Garden, Butterfly house and carolsel.
Boating - On the rivers or on the lakes. Lake of the Ozarks, Table Rock Lake, Rend Lake, Mark Twain Lake, Kentucky Lake, are some of the most popular.
OutDoors continued- St. Louis County and the Surrounding areas have dozens and dozens of great areas to hike, camp, canoe, and fish. check out the book "60 hikes in 60 Miles" STL edition.
We also have a great local dining scene, theartre, performing arts, symphony, and municipal opra.
Soccer - St. Louis is a MECCA for youth soccer. CYC league is popular for beginners but get them on a club team to really challenge them. More on the club teams can be found on the SLYSA website.
That's a brain dump but hopefully a good start for you.
I hope you know these arent neighbourhoods in st.louis. Many people outside st.louis mistaken it for so. If not then i think for raising a family on a good middle class budget, Kirkwood or Webster Groves would be the best places to live
Clayton and Ladue are great suburbs, but I'm not sure you find much in your price range in either area. Kirkwood and Webster Groves will probably have more housing stock. No matter where you buy, you can be assured of lower propery taxes! New Jersey property taxes are insane. Ours almost quadrupled when we moved to BC.
I disagree that the OP won't find much in Clayton or Ladue for under $700,000. These houses aren't too shabby or small, IMHO:
Clayton:
7687 Shirley Drive Clayton, MO 63105: $419,900
"Well maintained, fully updated 2,364 sf home w 4 Bdrms, 3 full Baths, 2 car garage. 1st floor has archways & cove molding & remodeled Bath w granite floor. Charmingly remodeled eat-in kitchen has stainless Bosch & KitchenAid appliances, under counter lights, cabinets w built-ins. Dining Room opens thru French doors to 16x9 screened porch. 16x13 bedroom on 1st floor works well as a Family Room. Larger than most Wydown Forest homes & light-filled with large rooms, many closets, thermal windows, beautifully finished hardwood floors throughout, updated electric & plumbing. 2nd floor has huge MBR w 2 walk-in closets, large alcoves, & ensuite Bath w stone floor. 2nd floor has 2 more large Bedrooms & another Bath w/ slate floor. Stone front porch, nicely landscaped yard, & large driveway w room for additional parking or a basketball game. 1 year BPG home warranty. 1.5 blocks from downtown Clayton, MetroLink, Starbucks, Wydown Park. Carswold side yard can be enclosed w shrubs & perhaps w fence." Coldwell Banker Gundaker -- Your site for St. Louis Real Estate
7709 West Biltmore St Louis, MO 63105 $499,900
"This is a must see 3 story home in the Clayton School District. This home features 2437 sq ft, 4 bedrooms, 3 1/2 bathroom, some wood flooring, 2 fireplaces, partially finished basement, detached 2 car garage and so much more! Don't hesitate schedule your showing today!" Coldwell Banker Gundaker -- Your site for St. Louis Real Estate
Ladue/Olivette/Creve Couer (Ladue School District)
17 Tealwood Drive Creve Coeur, MO 63141 $449,000 (Contingent Short Sale)
"Magnificent tri-level split home built in 1957 and designed by renowned architect Harris Armstrong. Step into the marble stone foyer which covers the main level of the home w/separate dining and roomy eat in kitchen. The DR has a unique chandelier & the kitchen features all stainless steel appliances-range hood, dishwasher, electric stove top and oven. The backsplash for the range hood w/multi colored ceramic tiles. The upper level features ceiling to floor windows in the great room, overlooking mature trees, a pond & the winding driveway. There is a contemporary floor to ceiling wood burning fireplace with natural stonework surround. Down the hallway there are two room bedrooms on the left with convenience built ins for the closets and ceiling fans. Sliding glass doors lead from one bedroom to the expansive oversized deck. The right side of the hallway reveals the guest bathroom and the master bedroom suite with double closets, 9 foot beamed ceilings and a full bath." Coldwell Banker Gundaker -- Your site for St. Louis Real Estate
704 Harvest Lane Olivette, MO 63132 $525,000
"1 yr new home with contemporary design in Ladue Schools in neighborhood with other new homes either completed, under construction, or to be built in close-in sought-after location. 3,150 SF, with 4 BD, 3.5 baths. Notice the light filled spaces with partial 15' high cathedral ceilings & wood flrs, 14'x12' wall for art display, gourmet granite kitchen w/stainless appliances plus breakfast rm including recessed & pendant lights & 2 sty wall of cabinet storage. Step down spacious GR with a tiled gas FPL plus a cozy 13'x6' niche for office or art studio. Half bath, a formal DR, & library/piano room complete the main level. Upstairs you will find 4 BD,3 baths with a mster bath with jet tub & large walk-in closet & 2nd floor laundry. Wonderful bike/walking path for access to Old Bonhomme School & Stacy Park. Also offered for 1 year lease at $2,500/month. Compare size and amenities to the other new homes being built on Harvest and Cherry Tree- Offered at just $167/sq ft- Outstanding Value!!" Coldwell Banker Gundaker -- Your site for St. Louis Real Estate
6 Bon Price Lane Olivette, MO 63132 $700,000 (3466 square feet!)
"Amazing home in coveted Ladue school district with open floor plan including first floor guest suite and office. Built in 2010, this beautiful custom home sits on a tree-lined street and is conveniently situated near stores, parks, restaurants, and is just minutes from highways. The sprawling open floor plan is perfect for entertaining with the family room opening to a kitchen boasting granite countertops and stainless steel appliances. A majestic stone fireplace and wall of windows make the hearth room the ideal place to take in the natural light while reading a book or listening to music from the built-in sound system. In the daytime, light permeates the first level inviting nature indoors. In the evening, the subtle colors and soft lighting create the perfect environment for relaxation." Coldwell Banker Gundaker -- Your site for St. Louis Real Estate
Need a bigger house? How about almost 4,000 square feet?
16 Daniel Road Ladue, MO 63124
"NEW PRICE- 2.5 Story home in the heart of Ladue, 3900+/- sq ft., 5B, 4b w entry foyer opens to formal living rm, sunken family room w French doors that lead to the patio and inground gunite pool, formal dining rm, kitchen with center island, planing desk, walk in pantry, Sub-Zero, custom cabinets, breakfast area, main floor laundry/mud rm/craft area, master bedroom w sliding glass doors and a balcony, a sitting room, a luxury bath with her & her sinks, whirlpool tub and separate shower, 4 additional bedrooms and 2 full baths. Arched doorways, crown moldings, some hardwood floors, neutral paint colors, sprinkler system, alarm, 2 car garage and lovely back yard space." Coldwell Banker Gundaker -- Your site for St. Louis Real Estate
There are a lot of houses, especially in the Ladue School District, in your price range.
For walkability, Clayton and Webster Groves fit the bit, as well as Kirkwood if you can find a house close to the Kirkwood 'downtown' area.
^ I agree with this post, but I have noticed that a lot of people who come to St. Louis from a more expensive city often have ideas of housing grandeur and wind up being disappointed when they actually see in person what they can get. That's not to say housing isn't affordable in STL, it is... but when people relegate their search to areas like Kirkwood, Clayton, Ladue, etc, they seem to inevitably end up spending more than they originally anticipated. I can't be the only person who has witnessed this phenomena, right?
Having said that, with a ceiling of 700 you really can live anywhere in STL. Re-reading the OP's criteria I would say definitely Clayton or else Kirkwood near it's downtown (which centers on Kirkwood and Argonne) or Webster Groves near it's downtown (which is along Lockwood, between Rock Hill and Elm).
Thanks for all the replies - they are ALL extremely helpful. Lots of food for thought!
One final question: how bad are the tornadoes? Is it a real issue?
Thanks!
The county got hit with a pretty bad EF4 in 2011. It did a ton of damage, but thankfully there was no loss of life. I've never had any trouble, but our sirens will typically go off at least 3 or 4 times during a tornado season ... and that is when you run for your basement
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