Moving from MKE to STL... help! (St. Louis, Kirkwood: apartment, house, neighborhood)

[lholmes1]

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

Yes, a small town of 11,000 is preferable to a teeming metro area of 3 million people because there's some urban decay, it gets hot in the summer, and there's no body of water as big as a great lake. LOL.

You can find a lot of quaint small towns around St. Louis that probably offer a lot more amenities than where you are now and put you within a much closer drive to the heart of the city. Try Kirkwood, Webster Groves, St. Charles, and even Belleville and Edwardsville on the Illinois side. As far as city living goes, don't confuse "old" with "rundown." I discovered very soon after I moved here that areas that appear to the naked eye to be rundown are, in reality, very vibrant and desirable places to live. St. Louis is a very old city and a lot of our building stock is very old and gritty, but that does not mean that those areas are necessarily rundown or dangerous. Some are, some aren't. Soulard and Benton Park are actually very nice, mostly gentrified areas even though they are pretty gritty. You just have to get used to the age of the city and learn what to expect.

Hi Mr. Dawn,

I knew you would try to rebut my post. Well here's another recent article from a credible source about STL being a city in decline. It is what it is.

American Cities In Decline - Business Insider

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by threepatchproblem

Hi there. I have a job offer in St Louis and am seriously considering it. However, I've never lived a city of St. Louis size or even a suburb of one. Right now, I live north of Milwaukee in Cedarburg and I love it here. I love the small town charm and natural beauty of Cedarburg (touristy as it might be), with the ability to pop into Milwaukee within a half-hour (I'm 27 and don't really do the club scene, but like to have eclectic shops, historic/vintage attractions [not a ton of new construction], and feel safe at night...). I also am a cold-weather person, shocking as that may seem to some!!! Although I don't live in Milwaukee, I also like areas like Wauwatosa and Bay View. The only thing I wish I had was more people my age here to meet.

The St. Louis locale really is my only hang-up when it comes to the job, because everything else is wonderful with the potential new job job.

When I went down on Monday to STL, I only saw a brief glimpse of Soulard and the company I will be working for is a bit south of Benton Park. I was really not impressed with the (albeit brief) glimpse I saw of the city - lots of crumbling buildings with no windows and "private property" signs on the doors. Not very attractive or appealing. It was muggy and overcast, and getting back to Wisconsin was like a breath of fresh air.

I've read a LOT of information but I just want some honest opinions. I've read there is major disparity between neighborhoods/suburbs - maybe I am just not seeing the right ones. I also read to stay away from streets that have names of states or Indian tribes (which is around the area where the new company is). I've heard of some good places: Kirkwood, Webster, South St. Louis. But I don't know the safety or overall feeling of the neighborhoods. I see a lot of great places on Craigslist for rent, but the outside and surrounding areas look less than desirable.

Can anyone who knows both help change my view? I'm heading back down this weekend to take a more thorough look and would like to focus on some areas in particular - both to visit and avoid. Any direction is appreciated!

I've lived in Milwaukee, and, I've spent a lot of time in different parts of the city and burbs there. While some of my preferences may be different from yours, I can and do understand what you like and are seeking.

First, Cedarburg, outer burb with small town feel. Being 27 and presumably single, living in Cedarburg, is a social challenge. You won't need to go as far out in Stl to get the middle ground of small town feel, yet be close enough to meet people your age. These will still be family communities/burbs, but have and be close to age appropriate people.

St. Louis is bigger than Milwaukee, with more amentities, but, is more spread out and less compact.

As you know, Cedarburg, Tosa, and Bayview are all in very different parts of the metro area, and all have a different feel. Parts of Tosa, would feel roughly similar to Webster Groves or Kirkwood. The other two are not as quick and easy of a comparison. I don't think you'll need to be out as far as Cedarburg anyway. Your work is in the city. You wouldn't need to be farther out to get some of the things you seek. Webster/ Kirkwood are Mayberry safe, Cedarburg safe.

Bayview would be more like South City in St. Louis. Tower Grove. I would also check out U City as well.(The Loop on Delmar is the main area)

So, based on your info, Kirkwood/Webster, two close in proximity, and similar areas. Stick near the downtown areas of these locales. U. City. Those are your burb choices.

In the city, the mentioned Tower Grove (spend some time in Tower Grove Park) and neighboring areas. I'd add Central West End (Spend some time in Forest Park) to that as well.

There are plenty of other areas as well if those don't suffice. But I think they will.

It gets plenty cold and cool in St. Louis, too cold for me. July and August are the two hot and humid months. I wouldn't base too much on your one visit. Just as, I wouldn't visit Milwaukee one day in January or Feb and make a sweeping judgement. Or, I wouldn't just visit parts of the North and West parts of the city of Milwaukee to form my geographic opinions and so on.

I think you'll find the adjustment to St. Louis to be rather small coming from a Milwaukee. They aren't dramatically different.

Overlook the weather part on your trip. You wouldn't have a weather problem most of the year. Enjoy your trip.

[Dawn10am]

Originally Posted by lholmes1

Hi Mr. Dawn,

I knew you would try to rebut my post. Well here's another recent article from a credible source about STL being a city in decline. It is what it is.

American Cities In Decline - Business Insider

I think we're all aware that St. Louis has lost a lot of population since its peak and it's nowhere near as important as it used to be (the same can be said of EVERY Rust Belt city--that's not unique to St. Louis). You're correct there. However, despite that, I still think it's a great city with a ton of history, awesome amenities, and I genuinely enjoy living here. I take pride in being part of the city's renaissance and I only wish more natives (like yourself) would get on board. I guess it wouldn't be worth it if there weren't any struggle though, right?

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by lholmes1

Hi threepatchproblem,

I am a native of STL. I read your post, and I did Google Cedarburg, WI where you are now and in all honesty, I would say to stay where you are. Cedarburg, looks like a beautiful and quaint town. Hmmm....where to begin on STL, well it has things to offer, but it's really not the most progressive city. It's a city in decline, the urban decay that you saw, well that's really quite common in STL in several areas and crime is awful. The weather here in the summer is almost always muggy and humid, and there is no real body of fresh water in STL. The Miss river is about it, and it's very dirty. I really don't want to say too many bad things, because I don't want to upset all the STL supporters, but unless this job is a substantial increase, I would stay in WI.

No comment on most of what you say. We could have an interesting discussion over tea but nevermind. Comment: I assume "Miss" is the Mississippi. Please include the Missouri where you can go rafting all the way to - or better, from - Kansas City. Then there is one river that I love simply because it is clean. At least where I see it is clean. The Meremac. I often cross over it on Gravois on the way to Fenton and always sit up straight to have a good look. I do not fish but those who do tell me it is great for fishing.

Dare I be honest and say it also loves to flood the whole valley? But, truthfully, wouldn't you say the Meremac is a lovely river?

[Brickmama]

St Louis is not a dying city. Are there areas with decay and have we lost population? Sure. However the last census figures showed an increase in household income, an increase in percentage of people with a bachelors degree, and an increase in 21-35 year olds. These metrics are not ones you would find in a dying city. St Louis has made some great strides in the past 10 years and I think the city may see some robust growth in the next 5-10 years.

I think you would like living in Soulard. I lived there and it's a great place with a lot of amenities within walking distance. It's safe and clean. If you are working south of BP then it's a no brainer.

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by Brickmama

St Louis is not a dying city. Are there areas with decay and have we lost population? Sure. However the last census figures showed an increase in household income, an increase in percentage of people with a bachelors degree, and an increase in 21-35 year olds. These metrics are not ones you would find in a dying city. St Louis has made some great strides in the past 10 years and I think the city may see some robust growth in the next 5-10 years.

I think you would like living in Soulard. I lived there and it's a great place with a lot of amenities within walking distance. It's safe and clean. If you are working south of BP then it's a no brainer.

Are we talking about St Louis city or St Louis county? Just want to get my thinking in gear.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by Brickmama

I think you would like living in Soulard. I lived there and it's a great place with a lot of amenities within walking distance. It's safe and clean. If you are working south of BP then it's a no brainer.

Sorry to hijack the thread. Is Soulard considered yuppiefied now or a mix of students and everything else?

[Brickmama]

Soulard is a mix of everything.

I am talking about STL City.

[Pacifico]

Aaaahhh, the aged-old question. Miller or Budweiser. That one's a head scratcher fer sure.

[zach_33]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

Sorry to hijack the thread. Is Soulard considered yuppiefied now or a mix of students and everything else?

It's not very yuppie... definitely not like J Crew preppie-yupster at all. I doubt there are a great many students there. It's a bit grungy and vintage hipster, with some well-moneyed middle aged folks sprinkled around since it is fun and party-like, but still rough around the edges.