City-County merger talk--is it just talk? (St. Louis, St. Charles: crime, buy, school district)

[silibran]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

The lack of regional cooperation has done an incalculable amount of damage to metro STL. Planning, transit, public policy, land use, education, taxation, boundaries - it's such a convoluted mess on so many levels, and it so clearly makes the region look stupid. Anyone that thinks the merger, or reentry, etc, are a bad idea, is basically committed to putting a noose around the economic future of the region. We have 90 something municipalities in STL county alone, which is capital-R Reeetarded. So many of them were formed for the sheer purpose of keeping black people out, and look how that worked out. Ghettos! Honestly, if it were up to me, I'd hire people to run the region with the strict requirement that nobody of local origin could be in any major decisionmaking roles. The locals have proven themselves remarkably bad at managing their own affairs or playing nicely together. That is a fact, not a diss. I'd like to think the merger/reentry can happen, but I also know that we're talking about children / parking lot developers / people whose politics are frozen in 1950s amber. So good luck with that!

The problem is politics. You have so many vested interests involved in each municipality. And you have political boundaries on top of political boundaries. You have library districts on top of school districts, without correspondence in many cases, and you also have towns. But, believe me, county residents of municipalities, for the most part, do not want to be part of a large city. And the city has been just as bad. Although now, I think it is apparent that the city is declining fast.

This problem dates from much earlier than the 1950s however.

[STLviaMSP]

In what respect is the city declining fast? Look at the central corridor! The crime rate is declining on all fronts! The neighborhoods around Tower Grove Park are becoming stroller central. Everything that's cool or interesting or culturally significant happens in STL. SoSTL is probably >10% foreign born. The light rail didn't exist 20 years ago. People - actual human beings - live downtown. How are any of those things decline? The population is down, and that is a decline, but it is arguably of a higher quality and more engaged than it was.

[Dawn10am]

I'd say that if any part of our metro area has the grimmest future it's the County. The population has been stagnant for 30 years, land values are dropping, and vast swaths of North County are just as ghetto as North City. It seems like a lot of people are either moving back into the City or out to St. Charles County. That's why I think these talks of merger will be more successful than those in the past. The County isn't what it used to be and isn't in as much of a position to resist.

[marigolds6]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

In what respect is the city declining fast? Look at the central corridor! The crime rate is declining on all fronts! The neighborhoods around Tower Grove Park are becoming stroller central. Everything that's cool or interesting or culturally significant happens in STL. SoSTL is probably >10% foreign born. The light rail didn't exist 20 years ago. People - actual human beings - live downtown. How are any of those things decline? The population is down, and that is a decline, but it is arguably of a higher quality and more engaged than it was.

The central corridor is doing great. The North Side, though, is definitely in decline. And not the "crime ridden" decline most former North City residents living in St Charles normally decry. Actual decline, where that area is simply dying out, losing businesses and buildings until there is just blocks and blocks of green space.
South City is a complete toss up. Some areas are doing spectacular, some have serious problems. But, even the serious problem areas are trying to fight back to improve.

[flynavyj]

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

I'd say that if any part of our metro area has the grimmest future it's the County. The population has been stagnant for 30 years, land values are dropping, and vast swaths of North County are just as ghetto as North City. It seems like a lot of people are either moving back into the City or out to St. Charles County. That's why I think these talks of merger will be more successful than those in the past. The County isn't what it used to be and isn't in as much of a position to resist.

I think it's a stretch to say that. If there's any reason behind the future potential of the city it is how far some parts of the city have declined up until this point. Parts of North City are all but abandoned. There are some parts that are doing fantastic, and others that are mediocre, and needing some gentrification, which may occur. I wonder how long it is before you see drastic improvements East of Grand on the Southside of town...I've driven through it, and considering how nice things have gotten on and West of Grand in Tower Grove South, to say Tower Grove East needs attention would be an understatement.

Many parts of St. Louis County will likely do just fine for the foreseeable future, as they offer affordable housing, good schools, and a new housing stock than the vast majority of city housing.

[jskirwin]

So what would be the benefits of the merger to city dwellers? And what would be the benefits to those in the county, unincorporated as well as in the municipalities?

[silibran]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

In what respect is the city declining fast? Look at the central corridor! The crime rate is declining on all fronts! The neighborhoods around Tower Grove Park are becoming stroller central. Everything that's cool or interesting or culturally significant happens in STL. SoSTL is probably >10% foreign born. The light rail didn't exist 20 years ago. People - actual human beings - live downtown. How are any of those things decline? The population is down, and that is a decline, but it is arguably of a higher quality and more engaged than it was.

Streets, airport, crime, pensions, schools.

[silibran]

Originally Posted by jskirwin

So what would be the benefits of the merger to city dwellers? And what would be the benefits to those in the county, unincorporated as well as in the municipalities?

That is the bottom line question. It is very hard to see benefits for any group. I think that if the county and city merged some services, there might be some efficiencies gained and possibly costs cut. Right now there is a dual system for water and sewer. There are multiple police departments. Multiple haulers of trash. Two health departments. Combined should be more efficient, although I could not guarantee this.

Countians think that the city is corrupt. I have no idea what city dwellers think about the county. But the fates of the two political entities are tied together. They should be able to work together.

[silibran]

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

I'd say that if any part of our metro area has the grimmest future it's the County. The population has been stagnant for 30 years, land values are dropping, and vast swaths of North County are just as ghetto as North City. It seems like a lot of people are either moving back into the City or out to St. Charles County. That's why I think these talks of merger will be more successful than those in the past. The County isn't what it used to be and isn't in as much of a position to resist.

While the population of the County has stopped increasing nearly as much as it used to, the population of the City has declined.

But this isn't about which political entity is better. It is about the ultimate fate of the two, which are really tied together in a sort of ambivalent brotherhood.

[marigolds6]

Originally Posted by jskirwin

So what would be the benefits of the merger to city dwellers? And what would be the benefits to those in the county, unincorporated as well as in the municipalities?

Smaller government, Smaller government, smaller government.
And a unified county process so that businesses that operate in both entities (nearly all) do not have to report all of their paperwork twice through two different workflows.

Also, it complete eliminates the city income tax, which is a plus for people who live or work in the city, but a major loss of revenue for the city.
The county gains a huge hunk of government revenue, as all of the city property would now fall under the county property tax.