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Old 06-04-2014, 08:47 AM
 
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"If the union goes away, and your work and compensation doesn't change...you just padded an extra 1.5% in your pocket."

That's a lot of if's. Or maybe if your union goes away, you stop getting the COLA raises the union negotiated and which may exceed the impact of 1.5% dues. Better hope your employer sees workers as assets to embrace rather than liabilities to squeeze.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:11 AM
 
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In theory workers could use the threat of organization to pressure employers without needing an actual union. But of course, that's the sort of strategic thinking that's pretty difficult to pull off without organization, which is why you need unions in the first place!
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
In theory workers could use the threat of organization to pressure employers without needing an actual union. But of course, that's the sort of strategic thinking that's pretty difficult to pull off without organization, which is why you need unions in the first place!
I've also seen organizations that use an "Employee Council" as a medium between management and the workforce, effectively organized such a unit can present a very convincing argument for unionization which often "gets what they want" or some form of actual negotiation.

I'm not an anti-union guy. I've seen both sides of the coin, and I was part of a company that had a very poor business relationship with its' workforce. I know numerous employees who've had their jobs saved by the unions (some who should have, some who shouldn't have), I've experienced cutbacks and layoffs watching my union brothers get furloughed with the hope of getting a recall a year or two later, and I've seen contract negotiations stall for YEARS after a contract expired with no end in sight.

As such, I don't think RTW is necessarily a "bad" thing...and it doesn't mean unions no longer have any benefit.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:22 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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In any event, only about 10% of the Missouri workforce is in unions.

Table 5. Union affiliation of employed wage and salary workers by state

Although I'm inclined to support RTW, it's not a pressing issue to me either way given the fairly low level of union membership in this state as it is. It sure gets people riled up though.

And workers don't necessarily seem to be embracing unions when given a choice even if they don't have to pay dues and the employer supports it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...99b_story.html
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:46 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
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10% is a pretty high number, especially when you consider that Missouri bans public sector unions.
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:55 AM
 
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GOP politicians illegally interfered with that vote by threatening workers, so it's not a very reliable bellewether. VW is also an especially worker-friendly company, which reduces the demand for unionization.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:26 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
GOP politicians illegally interfered with that vote by threatening workers, so it's not a very reliable bellewether. VW is also an especially worker-friendly company, which reduces the demand for unionization.

Are federal, state and local governments generally considered worker-friendly?
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:32 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
10% is a pretty high number, especially when you consider that Missouri bans public sector unions.
When did that happen? This is the closest thing I could find:

Bill targeting public employee unions passes House - Columbia Daily Tribune | Columbia Missouri: Local News

Are you telling me there are no government union employees in Missouri at the federal, state or local levels, including teachers?
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:46 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,266 posts, read 5,758,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
GOP politicians illegally interfered with that vote by threatening workers, so it's not a very reliable bellewether. VW is also an especially worker-friendly company, which reduces the demand for unionization.
Yeah, that's what the UAW said, even blaming it on the Kochs (those guys are blamed for everything!).

The WAPO article makes it sound like the real opposition was a little more grass roots:

"The real ground game, by contrast, came by way of a dedicated core of anti-union workers who handed out fliers, voiced their opposition through a Web site and social media, and held a big meeting Feb. 8 to make their case. “It just spread,” said Mike Jarvis, in a group gathered outside the news conference in the rain on Friday night, wearing blue T-shirts with a crossed-out UAW. “I told two people who told four people who told eight people, like a pyramid kind of thing.”

The winning argument? Jarvis said people on the fence were persuaded by a clause in a Neutrality Agreement negotiated between Volkswagen and the UAW before the election, establishing a principle of “maintaining and where possible enhancing the cost advantages and other competitive advantages” that Volkswagen enjoys over its competitors. In other words, keeping wages and benefits from getting too high relative to General Motors, Ford and Chrysler — which Jarvis calculated would take $3 per hour off his current pay."
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:23 PM
 
3,696 posts, read 2,576,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Are federal, state and local governments generally considered worker-friendly?
Well, not when conservatives are running things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Yeah, that's what the UAW said, even blaming it on the Kochs (those guys are blamed for everything!).

The WAPO article makes it sound like the real opposition was a little more grass roots:

"The real ground game, by contrast, came by way of a dedicated core of anti-union workers who handed out fliers, voiced their opposition through a Web site and social media, and held a big meeting Feb. 8 to make their case. “It just spread,” said Mike Jarvis, in a group gathered outside the news conference in the rain on Friday night, wearing blue T-shirts with a crossed-out UAW. “I told two people who told four people who told eight people, like a pyramid kind of thing.”

The winning argument? Jarvis said people on the fence were persuaded by a clause in a Neutrality Agreement negotiated between Volkswagen and the UAW before the election, establishing a principle of “maintaining and where possible enhancing the cost advantages and other competitive advantages” that Volkswagen enjoys over its competitors. In other words, keeping wages and benefits from getting too high relative to General Motors, Ford and Chrysler — which Jarvis calculated would take $3 per hour off his current pay."
It's possible there were multiple factors (which is why I referenced this quote in my original post, but I guess you ignored it). Unfortunately I'm not aware of any serious polling on the subject so we can only speculate. But I have to imagine that billionaire-funded Republicans screaming lies like "these jobs will go away if they unionize!" had to have some sort of impact (which is why they said it).
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