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Old 01-18-2014, 03:37 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
136 posts, read 244,533 times
Reputation: 111

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
And that flurry of construction you saw by Barnes? That's all inthe Central West End. I'm sure you know your St. Louis neighborhoods, but being gone so long I don't know if you're aware of the CWE's status. The CWE's been booming for the past couple years now, as it's becoming the hip and trendy area of the city that people want to live in. So I would imagine that there's a lot of construction going on there.
I should mention that most of the construction near Wash U's medical campus is happening on the south side of the campus (closer to, and including parts of, Forest Park Southeast). I would love for the FPSE neighborhood to develop, although most of the construction work there is Wash U/Barnes-related, and will mainly involve the construction of research and medical buildings...and parking lots.

However, I'm confident that Manchester Avenue in FPSE ("The Grove") will slowly develop into one of the city's must-go places for nightlife and dining.
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Old 01-18-2014, 04:08 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
136 posts, read 244,533 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by atractor49 View Post
I was down to St Louis last fall for the first time in 25-30 years. I have to say, the city just looked bad to me. An astounding amount of vacant land. I'm a country guy, I want to see impressive streetscapes when I go to town. I like construction projects, so I looked out for cranes. Didn't see much, save for a nice flurry of activity around Barnes Medical. I was in town for only 7-8 hours, so I guess I missed some stuff?
You probably did. While significant parts of the city indeed display urban decay and vacant land, other parts of the city look like this and this and this and this and this and this (I could go on).

All of those Google Street View links are from different neighborhoods of the city. Of course, most of those links (excluding the Maryland plaza view in CWE) are of residential streets that you wouldn't typically drive through, and St. Louis does lack a large number of dense, urban streets that you would expect in a city (Delmar Loop, Euclid Ave., and Washington Avenue come to mind...but there's nothing like, say, San Diego's Gaslamp District). In fact some of my favorite restaurants in the city (Olio/Elaia, PW Pizza, West End Grill) are in random parts of the city that you wouldn't go to unless you knew of those restaurants. I would love to see more streets like the Delmar Loop or South Grand in the city, but this all depends on an increased population flow to the city.
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:27 PM
 
1,710 posts, read 1,774,351 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewStLouisan View Post
You probably did. While significant parts of the city indeed display urban decay and vacant land, other parts of the city look like this and this and this and this and this and this (I could go on).

All of those Google Street View links are from different neighborhoods of the city. Of course, most of those links (excluding the Maryland plaza view in CWE) are of residential streets that you wouldn't typically drive through, and St. Louis does lack a large number of dense, urban streets that you would expect in a city (Delmar Loop, Euclid Ave., and Washington Avenue come to mind...but there's nothing like, say, San Diego's Gaslamp District). In fact some of my favorite restaurants in the city (Olio/Elaia, PW Pizza, West End Grill) are in random parts of the city that you wouldn't go to unless you knew of those restaurants. I would love to see more streets like the Delmar Loop or South Grand in the city, but this all depends on an increased population flow to the city.
I think we might see an increased population flow to the city. But I also think it might come at the suburbs' expense. I can't see the city and suburbs growing steadily at the same time; I feel like one is going to get fat off of the other. Hopefully I'll be wrong, but I think if the city starts to grow again (seems likely) the suburbs might have to contract.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:31 PM
 
2,147 posts, read 4,492,104 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanHamez View Post
These are very good questions and probably the best answer is "nobody knows." There are lots of things people are doing to improve services and amenities within the city and all of this is is overlayed on top of a trend of people migrating back to the cities across the country.

Personally my best guess answers to these questions are:
1) Will the city and county combine? Possibly. The city is regaining strength fairly quickly and parts of the county now appear to be stagnating. The easiest thing to do would be to hang together and pool resources, however politically difficult it would be. I don't foresee a full merger but likely a reentry of St. Louis city as one of the parts of St. Louis county. Will it happen in 10 years? I don't know but already, many services are starting to be merged. However, I would be surprised if 40 or 50 years passed and there wasn't a merger of some kind by that point.

2) Will the city stop losing population? I think we might still have a lower or stable population by the 2020 census and be completely turned around by the 2030 census. This will largely depend on how well the metro area is doing in general. If the St. Louis metro is attracting jobs and transplants from other parts of the country and keeping our own young people, then the city will do well. If the St. Louis metro is bleeding jobs and losing children, then the city will fair just as poorly as everybody else.

3) Will the north side turn around? In 10 years, could it be much much improved from now? Definitely. Will it reach levels of CWE attractiveness in 10 years? Probably not, even with the northside regeneration. Speaking of northside regeneration, we still don't have any firm plans so we don't really know what we are in store for. I hope we get blocks and blocks of row homes to repair the urban fabric that was destroyed with the "urban clearance" policies of the 70s, but its hard to say what it will all look like in the end.

4) Will there be surprises in store? Definitely. 50 years ago, nobody predicted that the semi-arid farmland of silicon valley would produce the greatest technological advances of the 20th century. Nobody predicted that the tobacco fields of North Carolina would be home to some of the largest banks and financial wealth in the country. Nobody predicted that Detroit, which was one of the richest cities in the US, would utterly implode. Nobody predicted that people would flee the cities but their grandchildren would flee the suburbs. In 50 years, the cities of asia grew from shantytowns to forests of steel and glass. In another 50-100 years, the great cities of the east coast will be under threat of extinction from sea level rise.

The future is crazy but very exciting at the same time.

I encourage you to look at these two sites:
nextSTL -
Next STL is a blog that discusses major political, urban planning, and development happening in our area.

urbanSTL Forum • View active topics
Urbanstl is the most active forum talking about neighborhood development, architecture, and urbanism in our region.
Awesome, very useful post. Thanks.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:53 AM
 
1,710 posts, read 1,774,351 times
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Does anyone think that our mass transit system will be expanded, or no? Could we see a bigger Metrolink, bus rapid transit, or even commuter rail?
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:46 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,034,285 times
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BRT is in the late stages of planning right now. The next 5-6 metrolink lines are already drawn up, but probably unlikely to be funded any time soon after how poorly the last expansion went. If the state were to suddenly start funding transit like in other states, these could happen.

There were two commuter rail lines planned in the late 90s, but both were dropped because of cost. One would run from downtown to Franklin County via Pacific, through Amtrak in Kirkwood. The other would go through the Gateway MTC and run up into Alton.
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Old 01-25-2014, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis
189 posts, read 319,471 times
Reputation: 261
There are also streetcar plans in the works too. Ideally, I'd like them to be integrated into the metro system eventually as well.
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:46 AM
 
830 posts, read 972,181 times
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I dont see St. Louis getting any worse than it already is. I'd love to see north city get revitalized, but after seeing whats happened in New York, DC and numerous other major cities, I'm afraid it'll be full blown gentrification rather than just revitilization and stabilization......it seems in american cities it has to be one extreme or the other.....either a full blown gentrified hipster/yuppie orgy or a burnt out deprived slum.

Realistically I dont see any kind of serious gentrification starting for another 5 years. although st. Louis has the type of architecture that hipsters LOVE, you also have to recognize that most of the hipsters on a rampage on the east and west coast cities came from the suburbs of midwestern cities like St Louis, KC, Indianapolis, various cities in Ohio, Minneapolis anc so forth. They went out east and out to the west because those cities had established art scenes or just big names and reputations they wanted to be associated with. Gentrification has to completely get out of control to the point where their trust funds cant pay for it before they consider moving back to the midwest and starting a gentrification invasion.

If gentrification does come, depending on how many hipsters move in and how the so called "art" scene grows, north city gentrification will be fast and furious. blacks in north city will continue to go into North county or out east into Illinois (east STL, Cahokia, washington Park, maybe even belleville).

Gentrification.....be careful what you ask for.....sure ghettos will just be pushed out of the city but what I love about St. Louis is that its affordable, and non-pretentious. I can goto the bars on the landing and I see various types of ppl, blue collar, white collar, black, white whatever, enjoying themselves. The city's attractions and good features are accesible to anyone who wishes to use them. If gentrification hits (and it will hit HARD if it does), its just going to be reduced to a bratty yuppies and annoying hipster playground full of overpriced goods and services.....
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Old 01-26-2014, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Peoria, AZ
962 posts, read 1,144,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter2219 View Post
I dont see St. Louis getting any worse than it already is. I'd love to see north city get revitalized, but after seeing whats happened in New York, DC and numerous other major cities, I'm afraid it'll be full blown gentrification rather than just revitilization and stabilization......it seems in american cities it has to be one extreme or the other.....either a full blown gentrified hipster/yuppie orgy or a burnt out deprived slum.
I think you're spot on in this assessment. I live in Phoenix right now (a much younger city, granted) but there is serious gentrification going on here and all of the "gentrified" areas are full of vegan restaurants, Whole Foods, "trendy" wine bars, and the like. The areas in Phoenix that gentrified all went through this transformation over the last 5 years or so.

From everything I've seen and read, St. Louis is ripe for this type of gentrification. Heck, it's already happened in Minneapolis (from what I've seen).
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:37 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,083,444 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter2219 View Post
I dont see St. Louis getting any worse than it already is. I'd love to see north city get revitalized, but after seeing whats happened in New York, DC and numerous other major cities, I'm afraid it'll be full blown gentrification rather than just revitilization and stabilization......it seems in american cities it has to be one extreme or the other.....either a full blown gentrified hipster/yuppie orgy or a burnt out deprived slum.
This type of seachange in a city with the metro size and economic characteristics of St. Louis is not possible, so there's no need to worry about it. In larger cities with massive gentrification, there are a few common threads: 1) many more amenities in the central core to draw a higher percentage in 2) greater incentive to relocate from burbs (tremendous traffic) 3) a lot more middle/upper middles to set off the "boutiquing" phase.

NYC is a totally different animal, so we'll use Chicago as an example. In STL you might draw in an extra 2% of households from the metro earning 50K or more over a decade. That's about 10,000 middle or upper middle households a decade, which is basically what we saw 2000-10 settling in one third of the city acting as gentrifiers. In Chicago, you might see 6% of households earning 60K or more doing the same (60K there is basically 50K in STL). That's almost 100,000 households.

They tend to be more concentrated in specific areas too due to cost issues. If I want X in St. Louis within 35 min of work for 180,000, I might be able to find it in any neighborhood, depending upon what X is. If I want the same X in Chicago for 20-25% more, it won't exist at that price in certain neighborhoods.

The other wildcard is metro growth. Chicago and STL are stagnant, but if you look at metros of St. Louis' size that are growing (the Sunbelts), you can see the same massive gentrification without the advantages I mentioned. In growing metros, you don't need to convince the locals to relocate to the city as much as you do convince the newcomers (which are entering the area in much higher numbers).
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