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Old 01-29-2014, 09:41 PM
 
78 posts, read 116,374 times
Reputation: 99

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
Hey guys, so I'm new here, and as you can tell I'm a resident of the St. Louis metro area. For my first post I'd like to ask you all this question: what will the future be like for St. Louis 10 years from now? Will the city finally stop bleeding population? Will the North side start to see a turnaround? Will we finally see the city re-incorporated into the county, and if so, how would that turn out? I've been thinking about what's ahead for a while and I just want to get some other thoughts on it. So what do you think is next for St. Louis?
STL will dry up. According to business professors, economists, and sociologist at local STL universities. Crime is a huge factor and business policies are problematic. This fact that no one want to live in STL city and county is also an issue. Many business hire people from out of state or other places in Missouri and the newcomers stick around 1-3 years and move.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Peoria, AZ
962 posts, read 1,145,365 times
Reputation: 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoToSTL View Post
STL will dry up. According to business professors, economists, and sociologist at local STL universities. Crime is a huge factor and business policies are problematic. This fact that no one want to live in STL city and county is also an issue. Many business hire people from out of state or other places in Missouri and the newcomers stick around 1-3 years and move.
Who is saying that? I've actually heard the opposite (and most other replies to the OP's post seemed to suggest that as well).
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:31 AM
 
1,710 posts, read 1,774,865 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoToSTL View Post
STL will dry up. According to business professors, economists, and sociologist at local STL universities. Crime is a huge factor and business policies are problematic. This fact that no one want to live in STL city and county is also an issue. Many business hire people from out of state or other places in Missouri and the newcomers stick around 1-3 years and move.
Something about your name tells me that there might be just a little bias in your reply. I could be wrong but that's my first impression. Anyway, crime may be a huge factor if you're in North St. Louis or the poorer parts of north county/south city, but not if you're in a safe area, which most of the St. Louis area generally is. Many people, including a lot of people in StL county, think the whole city is a crime infested and decayed mess, like some kind of mini-Detroit (nothing against Detroit). They're so wrapped up in that image that they ignore the success of many thriving parts of the city (CWE, Soulard, Lafayette Square, etc). Crime is concentrated heavily in the bad parts of the city, not spread across it, which is something people don't recognize because it isn't again by statistics. Crime in StL as a whole is not as bad as it's made out to be.

Last edited by OuttaTheLouBurbs; 01-30-2014 at 06:48 AM..
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:41 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
1,221 posts, read 2,381,061 times
Reputation: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoToSTL View Post
STL will dry up. According to business professors, economists, and sociologist at local STL universities. Crime is a huge factor and business policies are problematic. This fact that no one want to live in STL city and county is also an issue. Many business hire people from out of state or other places in Missouri and the newcomers stick around 1-3 years and move.
Besides the fact that most of what you say in here is completely off base, I'm impressed that it appears that you created an account specifically to bash St. Louis. THAT'S dedication!
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:46 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
4,009 posts, read 5,816,293 times
Reputation: 4569
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoToSTL View Post
STL will dry up. According to business professors, economists, and sociologist at local STL universities. Crime is a huge factor and business policies are problematic. This fact that no one want to live in STL city and county is also an issue. Many business hire people from out of state or other places in Missouri and the newcomers stick around 1-3 years and move.
I've also heard the complete opposite. Yes, St. Louis City population has been declining (although the decline is slowing down)... but St. Louis County, in spite of seeing a drop between 2000-2010 is estimated to be increasing in population again. Any increase in population does not indicate that nobody wants to live there.

I notice that you seem to have a difficulty with the English language from your verbiage and wonder if your negative opinions are from that of an ill-informed St. Louis transplant. I am also a transplant (and a foreigner) but my opinions of St. Louis are very different from yours.

Not to worry though, if you don't like it here, it's no skin off my back. There are plenty of people who love and embrace St. Louis. We live in a wonderful, arguably free country, so nobody is forcing you to stay
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Old 01-30-2014, 08:54 AM
 
Location: St. Louis City
483 posts, read 849,627 times
Reputation: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoToSTL View Post
STL will dry up. According to business professors, economists, and sociologist at local STL universities. Crime is a huge factor and business policies are problematic. This fact that no one want to live in STL city and county is also an issue. Many business hire people from out of state or other places in Missouri and the newcomers stick around 1-3 years and move.

Louisville is in this poster's future based on another recent post. Someone so unhappy with their environment should leave. I just hope that this person is the minority, and that the environment is what is driving the unhappiness and not the internal attributes.
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:18 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,083,836 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
@Chicago76 (on phone again)-Before I state another point, let me clarify that I'm not opposed to BRT. I think it would work very nicely for St Louis as long as we don't forcibly widen the roads they are on and thus destroy many historically valuable buildings (although I don't think this is likely). That being said, I do think that Metrolink extensions would be incredibly useful in addition to BRT. Your 3rd proposal, the south city idea, could work without costing too much. I think we could use the existing Union Pacific right of way that cuts past the Botanical Gardens and through South City to Carondelet; it could either be seperated from the existing freight line, or share the RoW with freight trains (a viable option that is practiced on several existing rapid transit/light rail systems). Could that possibly work?

Also, I think it would at least be fair to provide a corridor for the north side as well, especially considering the upcoming Regeneration project. Transit systems that connect to the north side would help revitalize the area. Considering how there's a lot of open land available, construction could be strategically placed while still being cost effective. If need be, such a hypothetical extension could also follow the TRRA trackage that cuts through north city.

To clarify, I'm not anti rail transit either, but more importantly, I'm pro-transit wherever it can be used to its maximum cost effectiveness above all else.

The Union Pacific ROW in theory could work, provided there was sufficient combined employment/residential density compared to the cost of constructing the line. Even if we assume for a moment that the line could be built at the basement bargain price of $35 million per mile (and it can't), the required density to support such a line would need to be roughly 33-35 people+jobs per acre around the stops. It's not close to this, nor can it be close to this over the coming decades. Apart from housing density and type, the big reason is the large amount of decaying industrial property adjacent to the rail. It's expensive to clean up and residential development won't consider it based upon the availability of housing options in better locations for cheap. In areas like the Grove, redevelopment will get done thanks to Cortex and proximity to medical district and the central corridor. But that's due to its strategic location. As part of the N side regeneration, a rail easement should be required, however, for the foreseeable future, there will be nothing significant enough in that area to warrant rail.

BRT, if implemented, would not tear down historic structures. It would run on streets sufficiently wide to accommodate 2 lanes of BRT, 2 lanes of cars, a boarding platform, and street parking (where it exists currently). Think Kingshighway, Grand (apart from the stretch in S Grand), Jefferson, Gravois, etc. You basically need 65-70 feet of width curb to curb to accommodate this. There may be certain areas where curbs would need to be moved a couple feet, or a select case, like S Grand, where BRT may need to share lanes for a couple blocks, but it would work fine in at least 95% of cases as is.

BRT nodes would be redevelopment engines as well, but they'd fit within the cost and density parameters required to be economically feasible. The also would be more inclusive for everyone living in any given corridor of the city, because you can build more of them for the same cost. Compare a complete network of BRT to the cost of building two additional metrolink lines (one each for N and S city + inner burbs). The complete BRT network might include the entire length of Kingshighway, Grand, Jefferson/Parnell, Gravois/Florissant/Natural Bridge to the airport, a ring all the way around the western perimeter of the city starting s of Carondelet going up to N Riverside Park, and a line that would connect DT to the Grove, Maplewood, Webster, and Kirkwood. The vast majority of people in the city (and many near the city) would live within 0.5 miles of a BRT station. Total capital cost: $900 million. This is 20% more per line mile than what Chicago is currently building, so it probably overestimates costs. Total capital cost of 2 metrolink lines: $1.2 billion (30 miles). This estimate is 20% less than the cost of any metrolink line built to date (inflation adjusted), so it probably underestimates costs.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:01 PM
 
536 posts, read 726,145 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
Something about your name tells me that there might be just a little bias in your reply. I could be wrong but that's my first impression. Anyway, crime may be a huge factor if you're in North St. Louis or the poorer parts of north county/south city, but not if you're in a safe area, which most of the St. Louis area generally is. Many people, including a lot of people in StL county, think the whole city is a crime infested and decayed mess, like some kind of mini-Detroit (nothing against Detroit). They're so wrapped up in that image that they ignore the success of many thriving parts of the city (CWE, Soulard, Lafayette Square, etc). Crime is concentrated heavily in the bad parts of the city, not spread across it, which is something people don't recognize because it isn't again by statistics. Crime in StL as a whole is not as bad as it's made out to be.
I realize this is hard to understand for people that recently moved to St. Louis and see these nice areas and don't see a problem, but many areas of St. Louis that are nicer now weren't always like that. People that grew up in the metro have opinions about places that might not be completely accurate now, but it's going to take time for those types of stereotypes to die out. It's not like these stereotypes weren't formed for a good reason though.

Believe me I have these people in my own family so I know. I have family members that think there is absolutely no reason to go downtown unless it's for a cardinals or blues game, and I constantly try to tell them things have changed since the 80s and 90s. Takes time though.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:45 PM
 
1,710 posts, read 1,774,865 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
I realize this is hard to understand for people that recently moved to St. Louis and see these nice areas and don't see a problem, but many areas of St. Louis that are nicer now weren't always like that. People that grew up in the metro have opinions about places that might not be completely accurate now, but it's going to take time for those types of stereotypes to die out. It's not like these stereotypes weren't formed for a good reason though.

Believe me I have these people in my own family so I know. I have family members that think there is absolutely no reason to go downtown unless it's for a cardinals or blues game, and I constantly try to tell them things have changed since the 80s and 90s. Takes time though.
That's true, the changes have only happened recently. However, we can't let the image persist-we have to challenge that stereotype at every given opportunity, even if it will take time to change. Otherwise, the perception will remain and eventually become reality again.

In all honesty, I think that people outside of the St. Louis metro area have a better opinion of St. Louis than its own metro residents. I feel like a lot of StL suburbanites have a poor opinion of the city, especially in some of the new-wealth areas such as St. Charles and Chesterfield.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
3,360 posts, read 7,329,716 times
Reputation: 2175
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
That's true, the changes have only happened recently. However, we can't let the image persist-we have to challenge that stereotype at every given opportunity, even if it will take time to change. Otherwise, the perception will remain and eventually become reality again.

In all honesty, I think that people outside of the St. Louis metro area have a better opinion of St. Louis than its own metro residents. I feel like a lot of StL suburbanites have a poor opinion of the city, especially in some of the new-wealth areas such as St. Charles and Chesterfield.

I don't know about that - Just about every "I'm moving to St. Louis thread" that's written by a person not familiar (i.e. they didn't grow up in the area, or spend considerable amounts of time here for whatever reason) starts or ends with a phrase like "Is crime as big of an issue as they here". The national reports and crime rankings have done plenty of damage regarding the safety of St. Louis, and as a result a negative opinion has been formed for many folks.

As to the folks in West County and St. Charles most of these individuals do look at St. Louis as the nucleus for crime in the region...but that's honestly well deserved, considering the pockets of incredibly concentrated and violent crimes. Additionally, with the exception of the occasional museum expedition, sporting events, or concerts most of these folks don't see much need in going to the city of St. Louis.

This forum isn't really the best overall representation of the metro region - as this forum is often more city centric. We tend to praise the cultural superiority of urban environments, the authentic ethnic foods, unique social clubs, and walkable neighborhoods. However we often forget that the majority of people are perfectly happy with Americanized Sushi, Local Pubs, and SUV's.
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