U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > St. Louis
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-04-2014, 10:17 AM
 
536 posts, read 725,989 times
Reputation: 639

Advertisements

The event definitely needs to be revamped. Last year was just terrible. Moving a St. Louis event to Chesterfield is pretty dumb in my opinion, but they will have no problem packing tons of people in to a food festival in Chesterfield. Or any other kind of festival for that matter. If people in the city are still interested in attending I doubt moving it 20 minutes away will stop them. Still the taste of St. Louis should be in, ya know, St. Louis. IMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-04-2014, 02:59 PM
 
1,710 posts, read 1,774,351 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
The event definitely needs to be revamped. Last year was just terrible. Moving a St. Louis event to Chesterfield is pretty dumb in my opinion, but they will have no problem packing tons of people in to a food festival in Chesterfield. Or any other kind of festival for that matter. If people in the city are still interested in attending I doubt moving it 20 minutes away will stop them. Still the taste of St. Louis should be in, ya know, St. Louis. IMO.
There may be more parking space, but more parking hardly means more people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2014, 05:00 PM
 
536 posts, read 725,989 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
There may be more parking space, but more parking hardly means more people.
Eh in my 30+ years in St. Louis I don't really remember the burbs having trouble pulling a crowd for a festival as long as the weather is decent. The events I attend in the county in the summer are always packed.

Again though I don't support the idea of moving the taste out of St. Louis, I just don't see why it would fail miserably. I also don't understand why a few posters seem to hate our suburbs so much, but to each their own.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2014, 10:40 AM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,083,444 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
Eh in my 30+ years in St. Louis I don't really remember the burbs having trouble pulling a crowd for a festival as long as the weather is decent. The events I attend in the county in the summer are always packed.

Again though I don't support the idea of moving the taste out of St. Louis, I just don't see why it would fail miserably. I also don't understand why a few posters seem to hate our suburbs so much, but to each their own.
I think it will do okay, although I'm opposed to the move. From the perspective of restaurant participants, it might even be a good thing. The majority of the participants are in the city and many aren't located in the obvious locations familiar to suburbanites (CWE, Soulard, DT). It could bring some extra attention to those restaurants from people who might not otherwise know that X in Fox Park even exists. If the festival made its way out to Chesterfield every third year, then that would strike me as the proper balance.

As for hating the 'burbs, it shouldn't be that difficult to understand. So much of what is identifiable as a regional brand is located in the city (its sports teams, institutions, cultural and artistic attractions, historical identity, etc.). Outside of Detroit (which is an extreme case), I haven't seen the same degree of separation between city and non-inner suburbs anywhere else. Many city (and inner ring suburbanites) have decided to invest and live where they do to preserve what makes region St. Louis. They see the lack of investment in what makes the region unique and the lack of interaction and get discouraged. People come downtown for a ballgame and a couple beers and leave. Three to four hours at a special event once every blue moon (be careful though...you might get robbed) is the only association many suburbanites have with the city. Downtown can't support a major shopping district. The city isn't even viewed as much as an employment district as it is for other metros either. There are 171,000 jobs within 3 miles of downtown. That is fewer than the same metric for Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, KC, Columbus, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis...and all of those regions are smaller. On a share basis, that area in St. Louis contains about 15% of the region's jobs. For those other cities, it's 22%.

It's not so much a hatred for the suburbs as it is a hatred for the bubble mentality attitude of both entities existing in isolation that seems more pervasive here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2014, 12:56 PM
 
536 posts, read 725,989 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
As for hating the 'burbs, it shouldn't be that difficult to understand. So much of what is identifiable as a regional brand is located in the city (its sports teams, institutions, cultural and artistic attractions, historical identity, etc.). Outside of Detroit (which is an extreme case), I haven't seen the same degree of separation between city and non-inner suburbs anywhere else. Many city (and inner ring suburbanites) have decided to invest and live where they do to preserve what makes region St. Louis. They see the lack of investment in what makes the region unique and the lack of interaction and get discouraged. People come downtown for a ballgame and a couple beers and leave. Three to four hours at a special event once every blue moon (be careful though...you might get robbed) is the only association many suburbanites have with the city. Downtown can't support a major shopping district. The city isn't even viewed as much as an employment district as it is for other metros either. There are 171,000 jobs within 3 miles of downtown. That is fewer than the same metric for Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, KC, Columbus, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis...and all of those regions are smaller. On a share basis, that area in St. Louis contains about 15% of the region's jobs. For those other cities, it's 22%.

It's not so much a hatred for the suburbs as it is a hatred for the bubble mentality attitude of both entities existing in isolation that seems more pervasive here.
Yeah I've been reading this exact opinion from newcomers to St. Louis for 10 years now, but it's not really how those of us that grew up here view things. To us "St. Louis" is St. Louis city + St. Louis county. We don't really view a separation there because you cross a line, and just kind of consider that area to be St. Louis. Why the two haven't been merged yet is beyond me, but I am sure it will happen eventually, and then all of a sudden St. Louis isn't one of the most dangerous cities in America anymore (Not that I think it is now).

Most people around my age (i'm in my 30's) that live in the county take full advantage of everything the city has to offer. They sure as hell attend more Cardinals games than one every blue moon. More like 30-40 a season (not to mention the Blues/Rams as well), and are always doing things downtown. I have many friends from the county that are 'foodies' and are always frequenting city restaurants.

There are city haters for sure, typically older people like my uncle for example (64 years old) that remembers a time when you were likely to get robbed downtown. He wouldn't live in the city if you gave him a free house. He also hates the county, and he moved to St. Peters many years ago. Still he is a season ticket holder for both the Cardinals and the Blues, and always goes out to eat and have beers in the city before every game. Today his biggest worry downtown is his truck getting broken into, which considering how many vehicles have been broken into lately it's not an unwarranted concern.

I would agree there is more of a separation between say St. Charles and St. Louis because they have everything they need out there, and the river doesn't help, but still plenty of people from St. Charles spend time (and money) in the city. Chesterfield, Ballwin, etc. is somewhere in the middle between St. Louis county and St. Charles county. People like to live out there for big houses, big yards, and good schools, but many work and play in St. Louis county and city.

I guess my point is that the stereotype of the suburbanite who only comes to the city once in a blue moon for a Cardinals game is just as bad as suburbanites that still have outdated opinions of the city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2014, 03:47 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,083,444 times
Reputation: 1584
Keep in mind, I'm speaking about things in general terms, not from the perspective of a C-D poster living in the county and his friends, who are presumably more likely to take advantage of city offerings. I've been here long enough to get a general perception from a diverse range of people I've meet, have the perspective of someone who has lived in other metros, and the numbers support my assertion.

I've meet more mid-40s to 60 somethings who have openly stated they are scared to go to the city/concerned about robbery than I ever have elsewhere. St. Charles county does have a bigger separation, but your assertion that they have "everything they need" supports what I'm saying as well. Theoretically, everyone has what they need in Small Town USA also. The point is that many people who live in the metro (St. Charles Co in particular) find no value in what the city has to offer, otherwise they wouldn't think they "have everything they need", because clearly there are things you can find/get in the city you can't get out there. I've met with execs who could never think of relocating to downtown even though most of their clients were close to downtown and it wouldn't affect the commuting times of their workforce.

The reality is that St. Louis' inner core is no more or less dangerous than that of other cities...at least in areas with a reasonable amount of things to do...but there is an elevated degree of fear mongering about the city that exists here. And I often hear that complaint from city residents, oldtimers and newcomers alike. Using the younger and no kids set as an example, if people in the metro found the city to be as desirable as they do in other areas, then there is no excuse (apart from work location) for that portion of the population to settle in the city in the reduced numbers that they do given the amenities and housing availability at current prices. None.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2014, 06:31 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
1,221 posts, read 2,380,529 times
Reputation: 786
What really gets me is all the people saying "Well I thought we were going for regionalism. Isn't this regionalism?" And the answer is NO. Moving it to Chesterfield is actually detrimental to regionalism. Downtown St. Louis City is one of the only places in the metro area (with the exception of maybe Forest Park) that truly belongs to everyone in the metro area. People from all over the St. Louis region come downtown and think "Yeah, I live here. This is my city." It brings the region together. That's just not the case in Chesterfield. People who don't live in Chesterfield are much less likely to feel that kind of connection when they go to festivals there than they are Downtown.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2014, 07:21 PM
 
536 posts, read 725,989 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
..Snip..
When I said St. Charles has everything it needs I meant more on a day-to-day living life basis. They have grocery stores, restaurants, movie theaters, etc. But they certainly do come to the city for things that they don't have like the zoo, or museums, or sporting events.

I've posted about this before, and of course there are people that are still afraid of the city because once upon a time (in my lifetime even) it was dangerous down there. Big time. There are places that are nice now and highly recommended (Like University City for example) that were dangerous when I was a kid. Even today my mom has trouble believing UCity is nicer than it was when she used to work there, and had to be escorted to her car at night.

In my experience though the fear mongers are not representative of suburbanites as a whole. They do exist though sure. Most people are smart enough to figure out that it's not as bad as it once was. Let's not pretend that everything is perfect downtown though, and that crime completely stopped. People were robbed last year walking to their car from Cardinals games for a while. They did catch the guy that was doing the robberies though.

Some people love to live downtown in the big city, in a big building, and walk everywhere they go. I am one of them. I hate driving. But my wants/needs/priorities in life are not the same as everyone else. Some people simply prefer living in a quieter suburb, and I don't mind that about people. I don't expect people to want the same things that I do. The beauty of suburban living is that you can have the lifestyle you want to have, and yet you are still close enough to the city to enjoy the things you like about it. Doesn't mean you have to live there though. It's the same in Chicago. How many millions more live in the burbs than live in the city there? 6 millionish?

In my lifetime in St. Louis I have lived in the city, the county, and in St. Charles, and they were all great for different reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn10am View Post
What really gets me is all the people saying "Well I thought we were going for regionalism. Isn't this regionalism?" And the answer is NO. Moving it to Chesterfield is actually detrimental to regionalism. Downtown St. Louis City is one of the only places in the metro area (with the exception of maybe Forest Park) that truly belongs to everyone in the metro area. People from all over the St. Louis region come downtown and think "Yeah, I live here. This is my city." It brings the region together. That's just not the case in Chesterfield. People who don't live in Chesterfield are much less likely to feel that kind of connection when they go to festivals there than they are Downtown.
Great post Dawn. Couldn't agree more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2014, 11:45 AM
 
14,755 posts, read 25,155,832 times
Reputation: 21283
Gotta love it!

Many city residents have no clue that there is life beyond I-270.

Most county residents rarely head east of I-170.

Nothing ever seems to change.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > St. Louis
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:32 PM.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top