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Old 03-11-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,266 posts, read 5,756,815 times
Reputation: 4274

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Ballwin won't back a city-county merger : News

...I suspect this will be a tough, if not impossible, thing to accomplish.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:48 AM
 
Location: rural North Carolina
272 posts, read 703,248 times
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So... What exactly are the benefits again for wealthy municipalities like Ballwin?
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:28 AM
 
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Ballwin and other micro munis may see themselves as islands of self-sufficiency, but whether they like it or not, they are associated with The City of Saint Louis, and they have zero control over that, and zero right to ***** and moan if they aren't willing to take the steps to act as a region.

Why is this important? Not all talent is homegrown, and when growing companies want to attract top talent, they currently have to spend a lot of energy spinning a crime stat that looks a lot worse on paper than it is in real life. Even in STL proper, you could chop off all the wards north of Page and eliminate a gigantic portion of the crime stat, making STL compare favorably to a lot of cities. And the fact is this city (and the region) has a ton to offer, but if you have to sift through endless noise about a crime stat that reflects mostly on 15 or 20 sq miles of the region to get there, it's a hard sell. STL isn't Detroit, not by a long shot, but that is the perception, and it hurts business development. Outside of metro STL, and even in STL metro, few people care about Ballwin, let alone know it (or numerous other) micro munis exist. And Ballwin may not care about Boston, but that isn't the point. If you want top talent, you need to not be spoken of in the same breath as Detroit, and the crime stat - which is forced to be what it is due to STL City being its own county rather than just another muni in STL County - makes STL look like Detroit even though it isn't. This holds back the region by preventing job creation that would benefit the inhabitants of all the uncooperative micro munis and also accelerate the rebirth of the city. Which is to say it's about crime, which is about perception, which is all ultimately about economics.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:43 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
1,221 posts, read 2,380,529 times
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^ I agree with most of this, except that the crime numbers for St. Louis City wouldn't change even if it entered the County. The crime stats would just reflect the crime in the municipality of St. Louis, which would be the same. The only way to change the crime stats is to combine the governments into a unified city-county as one reporting entity.

Which leads me to a question: Is Ballwin against St. Louis City entering the County as the 92nd (or 93rd-I can't keep it straight) municipality or are they merely against total consolidation? Sounds like they might not have done their homework covering all options.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:25 PM
 
208 posts, read 200,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jskirwin View Post
So... What exactly are the benefits again for wealthy municipalities like Ballwin?
None. On the other hand, the city wants a merger to mask existing internal problems, instead of working to reform itself. If a merger did in fact occured, counties outside the merged municiplaties will see population growth.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:26 PM
 
320 posts, read 544,490 times
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^ rofl.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:45 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
1,221 posts, read 2,380,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCitySam View Post
None. On the other hand, the city wants a merger to mask existing internal problems, instead of working to reform itself. If a merger did in fact occured, counties outside the merged municiplaties will see population growth.
Outlying counties are already growing faster than St. Louis City and County, so I don't see how a merger would hurt in that regard.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:00 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,083,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn10am View Post
^ I agree with most of this, except that the crime numbers for St. Louis City wouldn't change even if it entered the County. The crime stats would just reflect the crime in the municipality of St. Louis, which would be the same. The only way to change the crime stats is to combine the governments into a unified city-county as one reporting entity.
The crime numbers would change if the PDs were consolidated, even if there was not complete consolidation between the city and county. When Indianapolis did consolidated most of Marion Co. in the 70s, a few cities and towns retained their independence. Some have their own PDs and report crime separately. Others get their law enforcement from Indy Metro PD and their crime data rolls up to the IMPD level for UCR purposes.
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:56 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
1,221 posts, read 2,380,529 times
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I think we should combine PDs anyway even if the city and county don't ever merge or reenter or what have you. What a lot of suburbanites don't realize is that bad crime rankings for the City are bad for the whole metro area period.

But, anyway, back to Ballwin and how much it sucks.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:56 AM
 
Location: rural North Carolina
272 posts, read 703,248 times
Reputation: 329
So... There's no benefit to the wealthy municipalities for a merger so it won't happen.

General things like improving the area's competitiveness or crime statistics, even the supposed efficiencies gained by a merger, none of this matters unless there's a specific benefit to merging for these municipalities.
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