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View Poll Results: Which do you think is most true? (pick more than one)
The officer did not commit murder, he was in imminent danger. 84 62.69%
Police are guilty of murder and we have the RIGHT to be in the streets! 12 8.96%
In light of the volitility, a curfew is understandable. 47 35.07%
Police should wear body cameras at all times. 74 55.22%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2014, 10:18 AM
 
112 posts, read 118,512 times
Reputation: 113

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Good lord....

Let me ask this question.

Why do African immigrants dislike generational urban blacks from American cities?
I don't think it's fair to lump all Africans together and make such a blanket statement. I imagine that many African immigrants get along with African Americans, because I've rarely heard of instances where Africans and African Americans clashed. At the end of the day, Africans and African Americans are linked by common ancestry. I've heard directly from some Africans that they dislike certain white Americans, who harbor racist viewpoints about Africa.

Quote:
My wife used to teach in the very urban and diverse area of Old Northeast in KCMO. She always said that the actual African immigrants that lived in the area hated and were often scared to death of American blacks and considered them lazy, violent and intimidating. They were just as poor and had just as many challenges, yet the parents were almost always more involved with their child's progress at the school and the kids got better grades (even when not speaking English well).
Your wife is outside of the experience. I've actually lived in urban areas and there are relatively few documented problems between Africans and African Americans. If anything, Africans have had major run-ins with whites. I recall the African community even demanded that Sharpton protest on their behalf when an African immigrant (Amadou Diallo) was shot over 40 times by the NYPD. The NYPD officers believed he had a gun, but Diallo was unarmed. The African community in NYC, actually depended heavily on African American attorneys and community activists to help them bring charges against NYPD.


Quote:
Amadou Diallo, an unarmed West African immigrant with no criminal record, was 22 years old when he was killed on Feb. 5, 1999, by four New York City police officers.


The officers — Kenneth Boss, Sean Carroll, Edward McMellon and Richard Murphy — acknowledged firing 41 shots that night, but said they thought that Mr. Diallo was carrying a gun. Mr. Diallo, who came to America more than two years before from Guinea and worked as a street peddler in Manhattan, was hit by 19 bullets while standing in the doorway of his Bronx apartment building.
The case set off massive protests across the city, and became a flashpoint for heightened frictions between minority leaders and the administration of Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani.
All four officers, who were in plainclothes, said they approached Mr. Diallo because they thought he fit the description of a man wanted in a rape case. They contended that when he pulled out his wallet to show identification they mistook it for a gun.


The officers faced prosecution on second-degree murder and other charges but were acquitted by a jury in Albany, where the trial had been moved because of concerns over pretrial publicity.

Amadou Diallo News - The New York Times
Quote:
REV. AL SHARPTON AND NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK (NAN) TO STAND WITH KADIATOU DIALLO, MOTHER OF AMADOU DIALLO, TO DENOUNCE POLICE COMMISSIONER RAYMOND KELLY’S DECISION TO RESTORE A GUN TO OFFICER KENNETH BOSS— ONE OF FOUR OFFICERS TO FIRE 41 SHOTS AT DIALLO IN 1999 LEADING TO HIS DEATH
PRESS CONFERENCE AT ONE POLICE PLAZA IN NYC SUNDAY, OCTOBER 7TH AT 2PM

WHO:
Kadiatou Diallo, Mother of Amadou Diallo
Rev. Al Sharpton, President of National Action Network and MSNBC host
The Family of Ramarley Graham
And other activists, elected officials and clergy

WHERE:
ONE POLICE PLAZA – NYC

WHEN:
Sunday, October 7, 2012 – 2p.m.

BACKGROUND:
Diallo’s Mother Asks Why Officer Who Shot at Her Son Will Get Gun Back
http://nationalactionnetwork.net/pre...r-kenneth-bos/
Quote:
Stop acting stupid and making stupid decisions and blaming others for your actions and you won’t be constantly surrounded by stupidity for your entire life.
If we view things from an economic standpoint, under a capitalist system, there will be winners and losers. I firmly believe impoverished black youth, in particular, are programmed (via the entertainment and music industry) to act and think at the basal level. Examine who owns the major record labels, the movie industry and the private prisons. Ask yourself why these entities repeatedly target black urban youth with the same violent/anti social messages.

Ultimately, I do believe that each person must take responsibility for their own actions, but some people, particularly urban black youth have no idea who is really behind the scenes, helping to influence and ensure continued anti-social behavior.

The best advice that I can offer anyone, is to avoid TV "programming," music geared at urban youth and most mainstream movies!

Last edited by Christine_565; 08-20-2014 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:54 AM
 
112 posts, read 118,512 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time2Improve View Post
The whites who protest in the daytime are also peaceful and they want the truth. Some of them know that there are some issues with the police that must be addressed. I talked to a white guy from Oakland, who is part of a movement that was protesting to get justice for Oscar Grant ( the young father who was shot in the back while laying face down in handcuffs at the BART station.)

There are also whites who come out at night and they are anarchists. There's a guy that the local news has interviewed from Austin, TX. This same guy has been arrested 3 times!!

Actually, instead of being called anarchists, these people should be called thugs or animals.
Thank you for pointing this out. I should have mentioned that I was referring to the ararchist group who usually come out at night, not during the day.

I do realize that some whites are out there on the front lines with blacks peacefully protesting against police brutality and injustice.
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Missouri
592 posts, read 718,167 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thomas J View Post
Ok, well what you are failing to realize is that I live in NYC, Staten Island to be exact. Besides what the media projects on to the unsuspecting public I have a pretty good inside track of what goes on by me.

The Sean Bell incident the driver of the car ran into the cop after the NYPD attempted to stop them, identified themselves and were wearing badges around there necks. The driver panicked and wound up paying the price. Believe me when I say that there were no innocent people in that car the night Sean Bell was blown away.

What amazes me is that no one is ever guilty. It's always a setup. No one commits crimes in these high crime neighborhoods yet a crime is always happening. The black community has brought this on themselves in so many different ways we have lost count.

So yea, maybe MAYBE this was a bad shooting, and yes I agree there have been multiple incidents of bad policing by cops. Cops are human and not infallible, but I refuse to believe that a cop starts his day by saying how many *****s can I kill today. I just don't think that happens.

I would rather the cops be wrong a few times and get it right the rest of the time if it means an innocent person won't be victimized by some scumbag criminal who has been committing crimes for years on end and has gotten away with it. As we saw with Brown he just committed a felony robbery mere minutes earlier, he could only think that the cop was coming to arrest him for it when he ran into him in the middle of the street. Brown acted guilty because he was guilty.

What's the old saying Karma is a *****, well there you go, Karma is a *****. People who don't do the right thing and mercilessly prey on unsuspecting people get their's in the end. The universe has a way of working these things out.

Let me tell you about Al Sharpton, Sharpton is a raciest piece of **** who only believes half of what he is saying. The guy is a fraud, a fraud that has a membership at the Frias club in NYC. Sharpton is only out for himself and will exploit anyone he can to advance himself. I met Sharpton for the first time when I was a young man in Manhattan, even though I knew what a POS he was I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I introduced myself to him and he looked at me like I was a virus, a white virus. He is a despicable human being. Jackson and Ben Krump are cut from the same cloth, all phonies. At least a guy like Farakhan was up front about his racism and hatred for all white people.
I do think Al Sharpton is an opportunist and I don't look to him to be a savior. As far as his viewpoints, you have to remember that he was part of a civil rights movement that was much more violent than this. He was a part of a movement in which black people were killed at will and just fighting for equal rights. How can you expect him to think differently, just like how can I expect a 60-70 year old white person to think differently based on how they were raised. I'm not saying every person killed by police is innocent, but how many times are white unarmed young males killed by police? Do they not commit crime? Do they not get drunk, do drugs and become belligerent? Do they not mouth off and despise authority? I've seen this firsthand, and it's not limited to black people.

The issue with the Brown case is more complex than people think. If the issue is Brown being a criminal, then that should've been part of the initial release of information. How can the officer involved be taken away from the scene, but the body is left in the street for hours? Why wasn't the officer treated at the scene if he had a fractured jaw? Why is there video of him still at the scene after the incident talking to another officer? How can anyone expect a fair investigation when Ferguson PD can put out information whenever they want? How does that establish any trust on their part? Also, how are people discrediting the eyewitnesses who were there, but are accepting the testimony of a friend of the officer who 'heard' information secondhand.

Nobody believes the investigation will be fair, Bob McCullugh's father was killed in the line of duty. His father, brother, nephew and cousin have all served on the STL PD. It's more than likely he will be biased in this investigation, combined with his history.

St. Louis prosecutor has faced controversy for decades : News


Also, I think we should adopt the phrase 'White on White crime' in the media and let's see how it affects people's perception.
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Missouri
592 posts, read 718,167 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Well, from my personal experience with immigrants, it seems to me that they come here looking for a better life and THEY MAKE IT HAPPEN. They will take the lowest paying jobs, two or three of them if they have to, and work their way through school. I don't think they try to align themselves with whites so much as they see this as the land of opportunity - BECAUSE IT IS - and they do what they have to do to get where they want. I think they know what it is like to live in another country where those opportunities aren't available and they appreciate it.

A lot of blacks who were born here, though, take our freedoms and opportunities for granted. They think they don't apply to them or they think it should just be handed to them without them having to do anything to have a better life. It takes hard work, for sure. I guess I shouldn't just say blacks, though, because there are a lot of white kids who don't appreciate and take advantage of the opportunities that are available to them. But then, from what I see they aren't blaming blacks or any specific race for their not getting ahead, they just mainly blame corporate America or rich people. But then, I don't see them throwing Molotov cocktails, looting and destroying cities over it, either.

What I have seen in immigrant families is that their families stress hard work and education. It is impressive how well Asian and Indian children especially do academically. I have had a little bit of exposure to that because my kids had friends of other races, so I ended up interacting with their parents and knowing the family dynamic and what was expected of them. In particular, my son had an Asian friend whose parents guided him all the way through school. They knew where he was at all times. If he wasn't home when they expected him to be, they would be calling my house or they would come to my house to see if he was here. I imagine they went to other friends' houses too. He tried to slack off and wasn't the best student, not because he wasn't capable but he didn't put in the effort. But their efforts paid off because now he is college and doing well. Better than my son, in fact, who would be one of the kids who doesn't appreciate and take advantage of the opportunities available to him. But he works and he works hard and he is supporting himself and not blaming anyone that he's not making more money. I just wish he'd realize that education really is important if he wants something better in the future.

I also saw an Indian girl who won every science fair award, every academic reward, and was just truly outstanding academically. Again, a credit to her parents who came here for a better life for them and their kids and made sure they achieved that better life. That is pretty typical of what I see with immigrant kids.

So no. People don't come here from overseas and align themselves with white people so they don't get "hosed over" like the blacks. They come here seeking opportunities they didn't have in their country and when they get there they work hard and make it happen. You could take a lesson from them.

I'm sorry, but you are racist and probably don't even realize it. I'm guessing you are only seeing what the media shows you. The people who are looting is a mixed crowd and they are not from here, one of the rioters from Austin, TX is a white guy who has been arrested 3 times in the past 3 nights..
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Missouri
592 posts, read 718,167 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Good lord....

Let me ask this question.

Why do African immigrants dislike generational urban blacks from American cities?

My wife used to teach in the very urban and diverse area of Old Northeast in KCMO. She always said that the actual African immigrants that lived in the area hated and were often scared to death of American blacks and considered them lazy, violent and intimidating. They were just as poor and had just as many challenges, yet the parents were almost always more involved with their child's progress at the school and the kids got better grades (even when not speaking English well).

She now teaches in Maryland where she says that there is a huge difference between blacks vs the Midwest and there far less “reverse racism”. In KC, black kids are raised to hate and blame everything on white people and even black teachers and principals hate white teachers. It's nearly impossible for very good white teacher to be promoted in the KCMO School district, but black teachers that don't care and do nothing all day get promoted all the time. She now loves her job and loves her black principle and her best friends in the school she teaches at (which is mostly black) are black. In many ways, the youth are being raised in places like KC and StL as though it’s still the 1940’s and they grow up with a huge chip on their shoulders towards white people. Now there are good black teachers in KCMO too and not all blacks hate white people, but these issues were much more prevalent there.

This is not a racist statement, I am simply passing along information that I have been told numerous times.

I don’t know that these African immigrants are “aligning” themselves with anybody since Old NE is not really dominated by any race, but they would definitely attempt to avoid American blacks as much as possible and they had a pretty negative opinion of them.

Now this is just from a poverty perspective. I don’t know if African immigrants would have a more favorable opinion of American Blacks if they were to interact with them at a university for example. I would think that they would have nothing against them in that situation where they are educated and civilized. But urban black youth in high poverty areas scare the **** out of Africans trying to live in the same areas. Pretty bad to come from a third world country to America and have these problems.

And for the record. I grew up in nearly all black areas of urban kcmo as a youth and today, I probably have more in common and get along better with black people my age than whites. I have nothing against blacks. However, I do have a problem with their brainwashed mentality that white people are out to keep them in poverty and that everything white people do (cops included) is racial based (and so do the blacks I interact with). I fully understand how stupid white people have been and how racist some white people still are. White flight was retarded and helped create many American ghettos, but there is now just as much black flight as educated and more affluent black families also try to get away from the ghetto and thug mentality of urban blacks.

Stop acting stupid and making stupid decisions and blaming others for your actions and you won’t be constantly surrounded by stupidity for your entire life.

You make some good points and alot of that is true..But, for everything you say apply to blacks, also fits perfectly with trailer trash. No educated or affluent people want to live in a ghetto or a trailer park. But, think for a minute....if there are a lot of middle class white people who are just now realizing how they have been victimized by greed and corruption, how do you think black people would fare much better?
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Missouri
592 posts, read 718,167 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine_565 View Post
Thank you for pointing this out. I should have mentioned that I was referring to the ararchist group who usually come out at night, not during the day.

I do realize that some whites are out there on the front lines with blacks peacefully protesting against police brutality and injustice.


Thanks for acknowledging. I mean, its crazy....the police have responded with heavy artillery. The police dept involved can put out information when they please. The officer involved could be anywhere, while he's still being paid. The prosecutor's father was killed in the line of duty while serving for the STL PD...his brother,cousin, and nephew have all served as STL PD.

Whether you think the officer is justified or not, these are questions that point to some serious issues that need to be dealt with. They are always justified when killing a black person, but what happens when unarmed white citizens start getting gunned down and have no right to a fair investigation? I bet you changes start happening then. Our country is back in IRAQ, ramping up airstrikes, while our police back home are acting more like military....Drones flying above us... You better open your eyes
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Missouri
592 posts, read 718,167 times
Reputation: 550

#OfficerGo****Yourself Threatens to Kill Ferguson Livestreamers - YouTube
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Bodymore, Murderland
569 posts, read 1,278,973 times
Reputation: 346
Key witness and robbery accomplice Dorian Johnson recants testimony:

*UPDATE* St. Louis Media REPORT – Dorian Johnson Recants Media Statement ? – Tells Authorities “Big Mike” Did Try For Officers Gun – Grand Jury Charges “Unlikely”… *UPDATE* – But Special Prosecuto
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Paris
1,743 posts, read 2,258,872 times
Reputation: 1045
Quote:
Originally Posted by topospace View Post
Because we all know that that the majority of Ferguson residents don't have this mentality.
Yep, sure is awesome that I never met a racist, bigoted person in LA! Get over your obsession topospace, you're on the level of those you mock...
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,044 posts, read 21,008,650 times
Reputation: 6132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine_565 View Post
Ultimately, I do believe that each person must take responsibility for their own actions, but some people, particularly urban black youth have no idea who is really behind the scenes, helping to influence and ensure continued anti-social behavior.

The best advice that I can offer anyone, is to avoid TV "programming," music geared at urban youth and most mainstream movies!
They can avoid it, but I just don't see how it really matters.

So what your saying is that it's not a lifestyle choice it’s because of the people (probably white people) behind the scenes pushing hard core rap and TV (I don’t know what TV programming). I’ll even add one you didn’t mention. Video games like GTA!!!

Not buying it. First off, I listened to hard core rap as a teen (such as NWA) and never once did I feed the need to imitate and play out in real life the lyrics of that rap music. But who is producing this music that is designed to keep black youth down? Is it the goal of IceT to keep young blacks in poverty and in the prisons? The lyrics in hard core rap are ridiculous, racist, violent etc. Why would anybody glorify killing cops or raping people?? But I never took it seriously. I also grew tired of that type of music by the time I turned 19 because I matured.

What I have noticed in urban black culture is most of the kids that live in poverty in our city’s ghettos are actually scared and they just give into peer pressure.

When you combine the extremely strong peer pressure urban youth face with the fact that most have zero true role models (no father figure, often a grandma or other non-parent trying to raise several kids), it’s nearly impossible to stay out of trouble. Even kids that do have at least one caring parent that tries will have a difficult time keeping their kids out of trouble due to peer pressure because there are so many troubled youth surrounding them. I think this is the case with Brown. He was probably not a bad person, but like many urban blacks, he was getting too involved with too many “friends” in the hood. He did something he knew was wrong (the robbery) and the thought of getting caught caused him to make some terrible split second decisions when approached by law enforcement. I’m not justifying the cop shooting him dead, but you can generally avoid putting yourself in that position in the first place, by not robbing people and having some respect for the cops that are just trying to stop people from robbing people. Ever watch the TV show COPS? It’s funny how nearly all the suspects that run because they are “scared of the police” had drugs, carjacked somebody, had a stolen car etc? If you have done nothing wrong, why run? Brown probably saw he life crashing down on him. About to graduate high school and he didn’t want to get caught for some stupid thing he just did, even though the cop didn’t even know he did anything.

Listening to rap music and playing GTA has nothing to do with this. Not having legitimate parents that brought you into this world (that don't brainwash you that whites are out to get you) that put every effort of their lives into caring and properly raising you and teaching you values and compassion is the real reason. Till people that have no money or jobs or education above 3rd grade are hooked on drugs, live off the government, and don’t have an actual long term partner (parents) stop bringing multiple fathered children (where the dads don't even aknolege their kids) into these situations and let them fester into street thugs and blame everybody else for what they have done, nothing will change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time2Improve View Post
You make some good points and alot of that is true..But, for everything you say apply to blacks, also fits perfectly with trailer trash. No educated or affluent people want to live in a ghetto or a trailer park. But, think for a minute....if there are a lot of middle class white people who are just now realizing how they have been victimized by greed and corruption, how do you think black people would fare much better?
I agree that this applies just as well to whites. But I'm not sure what you are asking. I think anybody can easily be a victim of greed and corruption and those that are more affluent are probably taken advantage of more often. Why would people want money from people that have none? What is the point? There are companies trying to build retail stores in high poverty, low income black areas and all they get from people are reasons why they are “really” there. They would rather have the vacant buildings and drug dealers rather than a new retail center that is actually taking a risk to even be there. The conspiracy theories of how inner city people are only being taken advantage of is just a silly argument IMO.

Last edited by kcmo; 08-20-2014 at 01:17 PM..
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