U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > St. Louis
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Which do you think is most true? (pick more than one)
The officer did not commit murder, he was in imminent danger. 84 62.69%
Police are guilty of murder and we have the RIGHT to be in the streets! 12 8.96%
In light of the volitility, a curfew is understandable. 47 35.07%
Police should wear body cameras at all times. 74 55.22%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-20-2014, 01:09 PM
 
6,054 posts, read 6,904,721 times
Reputation: 4751

Advertisements

Many are hoping this is true.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-20-2014, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Missouri
592 posts, read 715,215 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
They can avoid it, but I just don't see how it really matters.

So what your saying is that it's not a lifestyle choice it’s because of the people (probably white people) behind the scenes pushing hard core rap and TV (I don’t know what TV programming). I’ll even add one you didn’t mention. Video games like GTA!!!

Not buying it. First off, I listened to hard core rap as a teen (such as NWA) and never once did I feed the need to imitate and play out in real life the lyrics of that rap music. But who is producing this music that is designed to keep black youth down? Is it the goal of IceT to keep young blacks in poverty and in the prisons? The lyrics in hard core rap are ridiculous, racist, violent etc. Why would anybody glorify killing cops or raping people?? But I never took it seriously. I also grew tired of that type of music by the time I turned 19 because I matured.

What I have noticed in urban black culture is most of the kids that live in poverty in our city’s ghettos are actually scared and they just give into peer pressure.

When you combine the extremely strong peer pressure urban youth face with the fact that most have zero true role models (no father figure, often a grandma or other non-parent trying to raise several kids), it’s nearly impossible to stay out of trouble. Even kids that do have at least one caring parent that tries will have a difficult time keeping their kids out of trouble due to peer pressure because there are so many troubled youth surrounding them. I think this is the case with Brown. He was probably not a bad person, but like many urban blacks, he was getting too involved with too many “friends” in the hood. He did something he knew was wrong (the robbery) and the thought of getting caught caused him to make some terrible split second decisions when approached by law enforcement. I’m not justifying the cop shooting him dead, but you can generally avoid putting yourself in that position in the first place, by not robbing people and having some respect for the cops that are just trying to stop people from robbing people. Ever watch the TV show COPS? It’s funny how nearly all the suspects that run because they are “scared of the police” had drugs, carjacked somebody, had a stolen car etc? If you have done nothing wrong, why run? Brown probably saw he life crashing down on him. About to graduate high school and he didn’t want to get caught for some stupid thing he just did, even though the cop didn’t even know he did anything.

Listening to rap music and playing GTA has nothing to do with this. Not having legitimate parents (that don't brainwash you that whites are out to get you) that brought you into this world that put every effort of their lives into caring and properly raising you and teaching you values and compassion is the real reason. Till people that have no money or jobs, are hooked on drugs and don’t have an actual long term partner (parents) stop bringing multiple fathered children into these situations and let them fester into street thugs and blame everybody else for what they have done, nothing will change.



I agree that this applies just as well to whites. But I'm not sure what you are asking. I think anybody can easily be a victim of greed and corruption and those that are more affluent are probably taken advantage of more often. Why would people want money from people that have none? What is the point? There are companies trying to build retail stores in high poverty, low income black areas and all they get from people are reasons why they are “really” there. They would rather have the vacant buildings and drug dealers rather than a new retail center that is actually taking a risk to even be there. The conspiracy theories of how inner city people are only being taken advantage of is just a silly argument IMO.
What I'm saying is that if middle class white people feel like they are taken advantage of (increasingly over the past decade)....then how do you think poor black people feel? They're at the absolute bottom of the totem pole. We are all witnessing the squeeze on the middle class and that's not a conspiracy. So, how can we say that people at the bottom being oppressed is a conspiracy?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2014, 01:22 PM
 
6,054 posts, read 6,904,721 times
Reputation: 4751
As I said before that St. Louis is definitely going to feel it.

This situation could have happened anywhere you have the foundation of Ferguson.

I learned from living in Chicago how nasty segregation can be and it does impact the thought process of everyone involved.

Some people may leave because of the situation. That's ok. It's hard living around so many who feel disenfranchised.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2014, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,044 posts, read 20,942,471 times
Reputation: 6131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time2Improve View Post
What I'm saying is that if middle class white people feel like they are taken advantage of (increasingly over the past decade)....then how do you think poor black people feel? They're at the absolute bottom of the totem pole. We are all witnessing the squeeze on the middle class and that's not a conspiracy. So, how can we say that people at the bottom being oppressed is a conspiracy?
Yea, but if anything, the middle class are taking more of a beating to benefit the poor. National health care (which I support), higher taxes on the middle class, more tax credits and refunds for the poor etc.

The problem is that the poor don’t have a clue about any of this because they are so out of touch with anything outside of what they hear on the streets.

For example. Obamacare is actually a good thing for those living in poverty. Chances are it will cost them little to nothing. But all they see is that it “might” cost them or when they sign up , they don’t understand that they will get it free or very cheap when they file taxes. They don’t see how much Obamacare will cost an average middle class family both in health care options and the financial hit. They just see it as another tax on the poor. The only way to provide health care for the poor is to tax the middle class though. So the middle class feel as if they are paying for something that the poor don’t even want and are certainly not appreciative.

But to simplify your question. Do what I did. Make your life better and put yourself in a better situation to succeed. I’m now firmly in the middle class. I can’t get any help to put my kids through college, I pay a ridiculous tax rate that keeps going up and if I so much as miss a ten dollar invoice, creditors will come after me.

If you are poor and a minority, you can almost always get a free education, you can now get nearly free health care, there are many programs out there that will grant you money to buy a first home etc etc

Or you can run the streets at 3AM and steal candy bars and liquor from QuikTrip and blame the cops, the middle class, white people and whoever else you are taught to blame for your situation.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2014, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Paris
1,741 posts, read 2,250,225 times
Reputation: 1030
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis View Post
As I said before that St. Louis is definitely going to feel it.

This situation could have happened anywhere you have the foundation of Ferguson.

I learned from living in Chicago how nasty segregation can be and it does impact the thought process of everyone involved.

Some people may leave because of the situation. That's ok. It's hard living around so many who feel disenfranchised.
Which is sad for the region at it could have happened anywhere in the US...
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2014, 01:41 PM
 
112 posts, read 118,201 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
They can avoid it, but I just don't see how it really matters.

So what your saying is that it's not a lifestyle choice it’s because of the people (probably white people) behind the scenes pushing hard core rap and TV (I don’t know what TV programming). I’ll even add one you didn’t mention. Video games like GTA!!!

Not buying it. First off, I listened to hard core rap as a teen (such as NWA) and never once did I feed the need to imitate and play out in real life the lyrics of that rap music. But who is producing this music that is designed to keep black youth down? Is it the goal of IceT to keep young blacks in poverty and in the prisons? The lyrics in hard core rap are ridiculous, racist, violent etc. Why would anybody glorify killing cops or raping people?? But I never took it seriously. I also grew tired of that type of music by the time I turned 19 because I matured.
Negative music, movies and video games which promote violence have a profound influence, especially when there are relatively few positive role models in one's life. I do not agree with all of the views expressed in the below video, but the creator of the video, certainly understands the impact of negative imagery and music on black impoverished youth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1bl...XT6pYFR6S2gM6w


I assure you, this is no conspiracy.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2014, 01:45 PM
 
854 posts, read 1,016,059 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time2Improve View Post
I do think Al Sharpton is an opportunist and I don't look to him to be a savior. As far as his viewpoints, you have to remember that he was part of a civil rights movement that was much more violent than this. He was a part of a movement in which black people were killed at will and just fighting for equal rights. How can you expect him to think differently, just like how can I expect a 60-70 year old white person to think differently based on how they were raised. I'm not saying every person killed by police is innocent, but how many times are white unarmed young males killed by police? Do they not commit crime? Do they not get drunk, do drugs and become belligerent? Do they not mouth off and despise authority? I've seen this firsthand, and it's not limited to black people.

The issue with the Brown case is more complex than people think. If the issue is Brown being a criminal, then that should've been part of the initial release of information. How can the officer involved be taken away from the scene, but the body is left in the street for hours? Why wasn't the officer treated at the scene if he had a fractured jaw? Why is there video of him still at the scene after the incident talking to another officer? How can anyone expect a fair investigation when Ferguson PD can put out information whenever they want? How does that establish any trust on their part? Also, how are people discrediting the eyewitnesses who were there, but are accepting the testimony of a friend of the officer who 'heard' information secondhand.

Nobody believes the investigation will be fair, Bob McCullugh's father was killed in the line of duty. His father, brother, nephew and cousin have all served on the STL PD. It's more than likely he will be biased in this investigation, combined with his history.

St. Louis prosecutor has faced controversy for decades : News


Also, I think we should adopt the phrase 'White on White crime' in the media and let's see how it affects people's perception.
Several excellent points. The discrediting of the eyewitnesses has enraged me, but accepting heresay from third parties is what some people are willing to believe. Pretty soon they will start trying to assassinate the character of the eyewitnesses. It's kind of like "Oh how could they being telling the truth their black?" Well that is exactly how I feel about police. Most of them lie through their teeth on a daily basis to people they question in order to get arrests. Law enforcement in America is out of control and there is no way to question their authority. The further militarization of police only makes it even harder for citizens to stand up for their rights. Police can basically detain you for whatever reason they want nowadays, even if it is illegal. For example listen to what happened to this reporter during the protests.

Huffington Post Reporter Arrested In Ferguson
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2014, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Staten Island
1,653 posts, read 1,966,803 times
Reputation: 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by bad apples View Post
Several excellent points. The discrediting of the eyewitnesses has enraged me, but accepting heresay from third parties is what some people are willing to believe. Pretty soon they will start trying to assassinate the character of the eyewitnesses. It's kind of like "Oh how could they being telling the truth their black?" Well that is exactly how I feel about police. Most of them lie through their teeth on a daily basis to people they question in order to get arrests. Law enforcement in America is out of control and there is no way to question their authority. The further militarization of police only makes it even harder for citizens to stand up for their rights. Police can basically detain you for whatever reason they want nowadays, even if it is illegal. For example listen to what happened to this reporter during the protests.

Huffington Post Reporter Arrested In Ferguson
What about the dozen or more wittiness that back up the cops story almost to the letter?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2014, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Staten Island
1,653 posts, read 1,966,803 times
Reputation: 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time2Improve View Post
I do think Al Sharpton is an opportunist and I don't look to him to be a savior. As far as his viewpoints, you have to remember that he was part of a civil rights movement that was much more violent than this. He was a part of a movement in which black people were killed at will and just fighting for equal rights. How can you expect him to think differently, just like how can I expect a 60-70 year old white person to think differently based on how they were raised. I'm not saying every person killed by police is innocent, but how many times are white unarmed young males killed by police? Do they not commit crime? Do they not get drunk, do drugs and become belligerent? Do they not mouth off and despise authority? I've seen this firsthand, and it's not limited to black people.
Sharpton in 59 years old born in Brooklyn in 1954. He wasn't at Selma, he wasn't part of any civil rights movement of the 60's. Sharpton was and still is a street hustler hiding out as a reverend, & the only reason he became a man of the cloth was for the tax breaks. The man is full of **** he is out for himself and the people he is helping wind up becoming victims by him and his tactics.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2014, 02:13 PM
 
854 posts, read 1,016,059 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thomas J View Post
Sharpton in 59 years old born in Brooklyn in 1954. He wasn't at Selma, he wasn't part of any civil rights movement of the 60's. Sharpton was and still is a street hustler hiding out as a reverend, & the only reason he became a man of the cloth was for the tax breaks. The man is full of **** he is out for himself and the people he is helping wind up becoming victims by him and his tactics.
Al Sharpton is one of the greatest human rights advocates of the 20th century. Don't try and discredit him as well. Selma wasn't the only event in the still ongoing civil rights movement. I feel like a lot of whites are trying to use minorities as a scapegoat for the downfall of Democracy in America. You can look to the leaders of both parties for that conundrum and how they all sold themselves to capitalism and the dogs of war. Minorities are not the problem the ultra elite rich and powerful are and always have been. They have created the issues of racism going back to when the first slaves where brought to the Americas. A few really wealthy Europeans created modern day racism through their economic exploits and horrendous acts. The constitution itself was written by wealthy hypocritical landowners and business men who used and abused their power. Call Sharpton a hustler all you want but the real hustle started when Europeans stepped foot on African and American soil.

Last edited by bad apples; 08-20-2014 at 02:26 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > St. Louis
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:05 AM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top