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View Poll Results: Which do you think is most true? (pick more than one)
The officer did not commit murder, he was in imminent danger. 84 62.69%
Police are guilty of murder and we have the RIGHT to be in the streets! 12 8.96%
In light of the volitility, a curfew is understandable. 47 35.07%
Police should wear body cameras at all times. 74 55.22%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:11 PM
 
2,448 posts, read 1,345,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
So, black residents cleaning up the mess at the QT were yelled at by other blacks for helping the white man.

Volunteers Clean Up at Ferguson QuikTrip, Get Yelled At for "Helping the White Man" | Riverfront Times

Do you have any sage observations about this particular mentality?
Why is the news focusing on the so called rioting, rather than the murder of a teenager by a authority figure?
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:16 PM
 
1,234 posts, read 910,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
Why is the news focusing on the so called rioting, rather than the murder of a teenager by a authority figure?
Were you this wound up a couple of weeks ago when the grandmother was gunned down while walking with her grandchildren? I just get sick of people "picking and choosing" which deaths are worth so much uproar. And I get even sicker of the race-baiting.
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:20 PM
 
1,234 posts, read 910,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
The so called "brown" people still have a high poverty rate.
What's your point? The last time I checked you can decide to require enough of yourself to make a decent life in this country, and guess what? It doesn't matter what color you are!
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:57 PM
 
2,448 posts, read 1,345,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpydove View Post
What's your point? The last time I checked you can decide to require enough of yourself to make a decent life in this country, and guess what? It doesn't matter what color you are!
Its very easy to say and express those sentiments.

Generational poverty is real and very hard to overcome.

That was my point.
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:15 PM
 
5,239 posts, read 7,191,710 times
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I think this thread should stay on topic and not move to the typical us versus them racial dialogue. That said racists haters and people with a chip on their shoulder come in all colors. Those that want to continue pushing a division between races are part of the problem, that too comes from some on both sides. Maybe the next generation will be less color conscious, it seems the young kids these days don't make such an issue of color, unless of course that behavior is being learned at home. I think most people today judge on behaviors rather than color. A well mannered, courteous young person gets respect from adults, no matter what their shade.

People need to take the high road and act like responsible citizens. Do you recall the Steven Utash case from Detroit, there was no looting or building burning by angry folks. Even after the weak sentences handed out, still there was no violence. The NAACP President Cornell William Brooks said reference the violence in Ferguson, "It may be inexcusable. It is not unexpected". So he is saying the mob mentality is expected whenever something controversial happens and people are angry. He is reaffirming old stereotypes with those kind of statements. That people cannot control their emotions and act inside the law when they feel outraged. I would say it is definitely inexcusable and shouldn't be expected behavior by any group no matter what reasons they feel they may have for doing so. And that is the message he should be spreading. I personally hoped all the businesses that were looted would not reopen but move to another town. That's what they deserve. These business owners had nothing to do with the incident and this is how people react back to the ones that have invested in the community, that's just wrong. And Mr. Williams anemic condemnation of the crimes is a pitiful example of pandering.

I can't believe that in 2014, the Ferguson Police have no cameras in their cruisers. That just amazes me, especially given how inexpensive they have become. I know Cleveland PD didn't have them, still not sure they do in all cars even today. Officers were buying their own, that's certainly what I would have done. Because it gives a clear record of what happens. We will most likely never know for certain exactly what happened between Mike Brown and the officer. There is apparently no video record of the incident. I imagine the truth is somewhere in between the back and forth reports we have been hearing. If the officer is found to blame he should be held accountable, that means more done than just losing his job, which is typically all that happens in these kinds of cases. Overzealous police behavior happens to all colors. You can see evidence of it on Youtube. This is not a problem of one race versus the cops. The roided hothead types are the issue and need to be weeded out of the departments. While they are a small percentage overall, they tend to be the ones with records of complaints and past problems. They are the ones eroding public confidence and making the job harder for the good cops. That said, if one mouths off and is disrespectful to an officer, expect some escalation of behavior in return. It may come in modest or extreme form, given the officer.
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Webster Groves, MO
1,134 posts, read 2,040,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn10am View Post
I'm sorry, but it's just kinda hard to take these people seriously when they behave like this. If a white person had struggled with a police officer for his gun and then got shot multiple times most people would have said, "what an idiot. He had it coming. Darwin awards." But when it's a black person all of a sudden that means it's indicative of racism and police brutality? And then that gives the community an excuse to riot, loot, and burn as they please? And now they're opportunistically attacking the Galleria Mall!?

Give me a break.
Name one time that has EVER happened to a white person. I cannot ever recall a white person walking down the street and being questioned by a police officer and then being shot multiple times while being unarmed.
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Old 08-12-2014, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,483 posts, read 4,604,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jskirwin View Post

Your reliance on an institution assumes that people are too stupid to know what's best for them.
I don't believe this. These people aren't stupid. Their priorities are different than mine - I'd rather have a nice house and a junker car - but they are just as intelligent as I am; They've just chosen different paths. Like the Africans I lived with some chose the harder path of working for a better future while the others expected to be taken care of.
I don't think the people are stupid, either, but segregation and other patterns in the U.S. have created cultural bubbles. Whites have their own bubbles, and though we do some stupid things, it doesn't mean we're unintelligent.



Quote:
And many whites aren't. Most of the poor living in my county are whites. This also doesn't explain why Africans from the Caribbean and Africa have thrived as immigrants, or why Indians and other Asians have surpassed African-Americans in wealth. Today Hispanics are about to do the same. What it does tell me is that the African-American culture that glorifies thuggery, misogyny, racism, and denigrates education and hard work. Contrary to what PC thinking states, all cultures are not equal and I'd question the health of modern African-American culture.
I generally agree, though not all cultures in black America glorify thuggery, etc. And like I said in an earlier post, what to some people is a thug, is to other people an authority figure who inspires trust and advancement. White culture has seen this with the Mafia, and that has been glorified a great deal.



Quote:
Who is "we"? And what are we supposed to learn from this? What does burning down a shoe store or terrorizing motorists by jumping on their cars say to your neighbors?
It's hard to say exactly-- the answer may depend on each person involved. Maybe it says that, in spite of being neighbors by physical proximity, they never were truly close to begin with? There are many other possibilities, too. What does it mean when white bankers and lenders scam easy clients? Or when poor whites practice racism against equally poor blacks? Or when rich blacks align themselves more with rich whites than with poor blacks? Our culture is a mix of very many cultures, and each one expresses itself differently.

Last edited by Empidonax; 08-12-2014 at 05:41 PM..
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Old 08-12-2014, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,483 posts, read 4,604,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
I profoundly disagree with much of what is in this post. Statements like "whites don't know what its like to be black", "daily encounter with discrimination at all levels"," America never wanted them as equals" all reek of a victim mentality that is like an epidemic in these extreme low income minority neighborhoods. This line of thinking gives people in these "ghettos" an excuse for why their neighborhoods look like they do, why so many drugs are there, crimes etc. Who is always to blame for these places??? of course white people are. I don't accept it, not one bit of it.
I think it's a reason, though not necessarily an excuse. But even so, it isn't an issue of "victimizers" and "victims"-- it isn't even that simple. In many ways, most whites haven't even cared enough to victimize blacks--in many ways, they've just ignored them or looked at them as "problems" more than as people. That's what "separate but equal" Jim Crow laws tried to achieve--let's live in separate but parallal spheres, and we'll all be fine--but that didn't work out so well. And I don't think it's outlandish at all to say that whites don't know what it's like to be black, and that blacks experience discrimination daily at all levels. That's just the reality for many, not all, blacks. Conversely, many blacks don't know what it's like to be white, and don't necessarily understand all of the nuances of problems that whites face. But do whites face the same kind of challenges that blacks do? I don't think so, but obviously, not all agree.


Quote:
I work with many black people, they do not live in ghettos, they have nice cars, they pick up the same pay check I do. They raise their kids and go to church. They do not appear second class or discriminated on in any way, nor do they normally talk about being discriminated against. They only comment on race issues when incidents like this make the news. Most black people do not live in ghettos, but listening to these people on the internet would lead you to believe that black people are still discriminated against like it is 1950. Most Americans white or black simply want this racial nonsense put in the past.
I don't disagree-- I never said that all black people live in ghettoes, etc. But many do, and the ghettoes of today are little different from those of decades ago. This applies not just to cities, but to towns as well. The "other side of the tracks" still applies in many places. I agree that many people want to put the racial stuff in the past, but most people don't want to do the work to get there. They just want it to happen.

Quote:
All this being said it really does look like this kid is a victim here, but why are the protesters steeling wheels and looting stores? Why burn local businesses??? Do they not realize that any local police department is controlled by the politicians they put into office, and given that reality they can change their local government any time they want to, including the police department. It is after all their police department.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
3,388 posts, read 7,666,026 times
Reputation: 2248
I think people often try to simplify the problem (i.e. Race is the issue, or race is not the issue). To me it's a bit more complex than that.

Race is an issue. Perception is an issue. History is an issue. Poverty is an issue. etc etc etc.

I can remember two grade school teachers stating that segregation worked better, all the groups (Black, Irish, Italians, etc) had their own distinct place, people had pride in their homes and their neighborhoods and you'd often see businesses run by the locals of those communities, with fire districts served by locals as well.

I personally think people in this world would do better to try and figure out how to help someone stand up for themselves, than to hit them because they're down...even when they're down and ignorant...enlightenment is the key.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:13 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,169,970 times
Reputation: 2972
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd00 View Post
I can't believe that in 2014, the Ferguson Police have no cameras in their cruisers. That just amazes me, especially given how inexpensive they have become.
The Ferguson department's whole point of existence is to be a bargain basement contract patrol for neighboring cities that cannot afford their own department or St Louis County police. County refuses to write contracts with guaranteed ticket revenue. Ferguson does, in exchange for a percentage of the revenue. Ferguson's contracts deploy half the number of officers that county or self-patrol cities do, and they bridge patrols (so officers might patrol two or more cities).

I am mentioning all of this so you understand that the Ferguson department is there first and foremost to make money. When you think about that, you understand why they have no cameras in their cruisers. (And I can almost guarantee you the cameras that they purchased, but have not installed, were bought with grant money. Hence why they were not installed.)
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