I love Ferguson, and have to ask, why is the rule of law not being observed? (St. Louis: sales, crime)

[RosemaryT]

I'm genuinely worried about Ferguson. The Livestream broadcasts show that this is a town on the cusp of big trouble. The protesters crossed a line when they issued death threats against the Faraci's Pizza Restaurant. If you think these are "peaceful protests," I urge you to watch the Livestream broadcasts at night.

I lived in the St. Louis area for many years, and worked there for a short time (in Ferguson). It's a great little town and I have many happy memories of it. However...as a lawyer's wife, I took some time and read through the city code, and found that these nightly "protests" are violating many, many existing laws.

You can read the laws for yourself here: https://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=10768

Sec. 29-83: Private peace disturbance.

(a) A person commits the crime of private peace disturbance if he is on private property and unreasonably and purposely causes alarm to another person or persons on the same premises by:

(1) Threatening to commit a crime against any person; or

(2) Fighting; or

(3) Loud noise; or

(4) Offensive language addressed in a face-to-face manner to a specific individual and uttered under circumstances which are likely to produce an immediate aggressive response from a reasonable recipient.

If you read on from Sec 29-82 through Sec. 29-92, you'll find that these protestors are violating *many* ordinances involving inciting to riot (gathering with six or more people with discussion of violence), noise, foul language, obstructing pedestrian traffic to private property, offensive language, and on and on and on. These are the LAWS of Ferguson.


To find the specific ordinances, click on that link and go to Chapter 29 (left hand column), and then click on Article V (Offenses against public order).

So that reflects the laws in place in Ferguson.

My question is, why are these laws not being observed?

[mjtinmemphis]

Rosemaryt,

There has been so many laws broken by so many people on a daily basis not only in Ferguson. And they do get away with it.

By the time the ACLU, DOJ and everyone else gets finished with this, Ferguson is going to have a new police department and everything else.

[BerkeleyKid]

....Along with a new name. Ferguson will be no more.

[aliasfinn]

Originally Posted by BerkeleyKid

....Along with a new name. Ferguson will be no more.

It's just as well, so many people keep spelling it wrong anyway.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by BerkeleyKid

....Along with a new name. Ferguson will be no more.

The whole Ferguson debacle has pushed me toward thinking that we should just merge the whole county into a single city that actually has the resources to deal with this stuff. I always thought we had too many postage-stamp munis around here, but I figured the 25k person towns like Ferguson at least could handle their crap. Apparently they don't, and it affects the whole region.

[Dawn10am]

Probably because they're afraid it might be "racist" to do so. Or they're afraid that it could set off even more violent protests. Either way, they're afraid. Some of these protesters (SOME, not all), like to resort to violence and intimidation to get what they want, and a lot of times it's directed at completely unrelated parties, like small businesses and commuters on Hanley/70. You're right to be worried about Ferguson. Expect the trickle of the middle class out of North County to become a waterfall.

[BerkeleyKid]

Fence it off. Ferguson sounds like a good name for a correctional facility.

[TimtheGuy]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

The whole Ferguson debacle has pushed me toward thinking that we should just merge the whole county into a single city that actually has the resources to deal with this stuff. I always thought we had too many postage-stamp munis around here, but I figured the 25k person towns like Ferguson at least could handle their crap. Apparently they don't, and it affects the whole region.

It is actually easy to handle as smaller governments. Memphis is an example of this. The city of Memphis annexed everything they could and now there is a much larger area out of control than it could have been.

[Chicago76]

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

Probably because they're afraid it might be "racist" to do so. Or they're afraid that it could set off even more violent protests. Either way, they're afraid. Some of these protesters (SOME, not all), like to resort to violence and intimidation to get what they want, and a lot of times it's directed at completely unrelated parties, like small businesses and commuters on Hanley/70. You're right to be worried about Ferguson. Expect the trickle of the middle class out of North County to become a waterfall.

They've tried to consolidate before. The argument isn't that it's racist to do so. It has always been that the wealthier areas have no reason to merge. If you're in a "point of sale" sales tax city like Richmond Heights, Clayton, etc, you're not going to want to share with areas facing decline and worse socioeconomic conditions. Merging the police and fire service would be helpful, it seems like every small community in the county has someone important's nephew in uniform drawing a decent wage when in all probability, the officer is probably barely qualified to be a stocker at Home Depot.

The middle class trickle out of North County has been going on for years. In a lot of it, there isn't a lot of middle class left. What I expect is to see a working class waterfall out of most of north county. That's when things will get really interesting. Will St. Charles Co. be as gung-ho about "any new development is good development" when the people looking at those developments, ahem, seem a little more "diverse" than they used to? Will the poor in north city move out to the county to fill the void left by working class departures?

The city and county seem to be at least entertaining the idea of some shared services in no small part thanks to the decline of the county reducing their bargaining power. If the city loses a big segment of its poor to north county and north county loses more of its middle and working class to St. Charles county, how does that play into the relationships and cooperation of all three? 15 years from now, I could easily see a scenario in which the city would want nothing to do with north county the same way the rest of St Louis county wants nothing to do with north county.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by Chicago76

15 years from now, I could easily see a scenario in which the city would want nothing to do with north county the same way the rest of St Louis county wants nothing to do with north county.

I would agree with that. I grew up in Ferguson and my old neighborhood has changed so much. Only 2 homes are occupied by residents who where there 20 years ago.

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

Probably because they're afraid it might be "racist" to do so. Or they're afraid that it could set off even more violent protests. Either way, they're afraid. Some of these protesters (SOME, not all), like to resort to violence and intimidation to get what they want, and a lot of times it's directed at completely unrelated parties, like small businesses and commuters on Hanley/70.

Dawn, There is too much fear involved. People in areas like St. Charles and other exurbs seem more fearful of African Americans than others who choose to live in diverse neighborhoods. Xenophobia is alive and well in some areas of the suburbs.

When has violence been directed towards commuters at Hanley/70? Once again most of the violence is coming from people outside of Ferguson.