Violence Explodes (St. Louis, Ferguson: houses, neighborhoods, to buy)

[Devon011]

Originally Posted by aliasfinn

There have been quite a few shootings this past week that they are calling road rage.

A woman and three passengers drove around a car that was stopped in the road and someone from that car shot her in the lip.

A woman was driving her boyfriend home and someone opened up on them putting 5-6 bullet holes in her car, looking at the car on the news it's amazing neither of them were hit.

Just yesterday a guy was driving down the highway by Goodfellow and someone cut him off so he flashed his high beams and the car slowed down, as he passed someone shot a hole thru his car.

Yea sadly it doesn't take much for thugs to act stupid. Seems ever since those protests started violent shootings has been up nonstop. Flashing my high beams has always been the way I communicate to other drivers with such things.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

I'm a middle class Black and I love St. Louis and wouldn't live in the suburbs if you gave it to me.

What Black person do you know who doesn't care about the violence in the city? We all know that Black men mostly under 25, poor and associated with either drug or gang culture are responsible for most of the violence. St. Louis is a very dangerous place for them. Other Cities are just as bad and many are leaving because of this. Educated and professional Black men over the age of 40 are just as safe and non violent as any other group.

There are groups of young people who are concerned with seeing their peers die senselessly to gun violence.

Okay, perhaps you live there.

My point was that Whites aren't the only persons leaving St. Louis proper. Blacks have been leaving too, but little attention is paid to that. It only matters to some people if Whites leave. Many Blacks care about what is going on, and are tired of the violence too.

[Dawn10am]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Okay, perhaps you live there.

My point was that Whites aren't the only persons leaving St. Louis proper. Blacks have been leaving too, but little attention is paid to that. It only matters to some people if Whites leave. Many Blacks care about what is going on, and are tired of the violence too.

I think blacks have been leaving at much higher percentages than whites, actually. Population loss on the North Side is quite a bit more pronounced than the South Side.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

I think blacks have been leaving at much higher percentages than whites, actually. Population loss on the North Side is quite a bit more pronounced than the South Side.

Perhaps so. And St. Louis isn't the only example. I'm not saying there aren't middle class Blacks in the cities. I'm just saying that alot of Blacks are tired of the violence too, and many of them have left the city. It has taken place in Oakland, Detroit, New Orleans, and other cities. The main point is that if it's dangerous for Whites, it is mostly likely dangerous for Blacks too, as Blacks are often the majority of murder victims. However, what I gathered from one post is that it was being ignored that many Blacks don't feel safe in St. Louis either.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Perhaps so. And St. Louis isn't the only example. I'm not saying there aren't middle class Blacks in the cities. I'm just saying that alot of Blacks are tired of the violence too, and many of them have left the city. It has taken place in Oakland, Detroit, New Orleans, and other cities. The main point is that if it's dangerous for Whites, it is mostly likely dangerous for Blacks too, as Blacks are often the majority of murder victims. However, what I gathered from one post is that it was being ignored that many Blacks don't feel safe in St. Louis either.

What you are ignoring or perhaps are simply not aware of not being from St. Louis is that my post was very specific to an area of south St. Louis that is home to a very large number of Bosnians and has been for the past 20 years or so since Bosnian refugees were resettled in that part of St. Louis city. It is fairly well documented that many of the Bosnians have been leaving that part of the city for the county (suburbs) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which (according to them) is crime. So when I wrote Bosnians are tired of the crime - I was specifically discussing circumstances as they exist right now in one specific area of St. Louis. I wasn't making any general statements about whites, blacks, white flight, or black flight, etc. You read way too much into one post.

All of us familiar with St. Louis know there has been black flight from north St. Louis, primarily to north St. Louis county. See Ferguson, Spanish Lake, etc. And the cycle continues. In fact, most of the population loss that is still continuing in St. Louis city is black flight from the city of St. Louis - presumably because of crime and poor schools.

[Dawn10am]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

All of us familiar with St. Louis know there has been black flight from north St. Louis, primarily to north St. Louis county. See Ferguson, Spanish Lake, etc. And the cycle continues. In fact, most of the population loss that is still continuing in St. Louis city is black flight from the city of St. Louis - presumably because of crime and poor schools.

Indeed. What I find interesting (and also frustrating) is that normally when blacks leave the city for better schools and safer neighborhoods, their motives are rarely questioned. Contrast that with the allegations of racism when white people do the very same thing. Double standard?

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Okay, perhaps you live there.

My point was that Whites aren't the only persons leaving St. Louis proper. Blacks have been leaving too, but little attention is paid to that. It only matters to some people if Whites leave. Many Blacks care about what is going on, and are tired of the violence too.

I get what you are writing.

There hasn't been a major demographic shift in St. Louis like other cities. The city is still half and half basically. I'm meeting a lot of transplants from Chicago and the southeast who are setting up home in the city because they like the city and what it has to offer. Some are boomerang St. Louisans others just end up here for what ever reason. The city is still leaking population because of the availability of section 8 opportunities in the suburbs, people grow into a family and want the suburbs and other reasons. New people move in old people move out. We are beginning to see new people move in but it hasn't off set the number of people moving out. I would hate to see the city have the same type of mindset it had 20 years ago about race and be so provincial. I like the changes I see in the demographics. I hope we will continue to see young people move here and enjoy the city and we all can live together. Immigration is what is saving a lot of cities along with areas geared towards dinks and gays.

High crime ranking is nothing new to St. Louis. I don't have the answers as to what can change it. Regardless of what reason we give for the rankings, we have to continue to fight. What I hear and read is far worse than what I experience as a resident.

The Bosnian population could be spreading into south county for safety issues. Why would they want to stay in a neighborhood that doesn't work for them.

It's unfair to say that all whites who leave the city do so for race reasons.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

Indeed. What I find interesting (and also frustrating) is that normally when blacks leave the city for better schools and safer neighborhoods, their motives are rarely questioned. Contrast that with the allegations of racism when white people do the very same thing. Double standard?

Did anybody say whites move out of the city for race reasons? I only recall whites moving out of the suburbs for race reasons.

In any case, I personally don't have a problem with the cultural side of white flight by itself; it's perfectly reasonable, to me, that many folks prefer to live around people who share their outward cultural traditions (play the same sports, attend the same church, eat the same food, etc.). The real problem is that white flight results in capital flight, because of the huge wealth disparities between races. If incoming blacks had the same wealth as whites, white flight wouldn't be a problem.

[Dawn10am]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

Did anybody say whites move out of the city for race reasons? I only recall whites moving out of the suburbs for race reasons.

Not recently on this thread, no. But I've heard it alleged in real life. I've even heard someone go so far as to say "people in West County are really racist." Now that's a blanket statement if I've ever heard one. Also, the book Mapping Decline makes pretty heavy insinuations of that theory.

[drro]

Originally Posted by aliasfinn

There have been quite a few shootings this past week that they are calling road rage.

A woman and three passengers drove around a car that was stopped in the road and someone from that car shot her in the lip.

A woman was driving her boyfriend home and someone opened up on them putting 5-6 bullet holes in her car, looking at the car on the news it's amazing neither of them were hit.

Just yesterday a guy was driving down the highway by Goodfellow and someone cut him off so he flashed his high beams and the car slowed down, as he passed someone shot a hole thru his car.

Wow, that seems like a peaceful, friendly city . What is the reason for all this violence?

What do people people from St. Louis think about East St. Louis? Has East St. Louis inspired some of the violent crime in St. Louis?