Violence Explodes (St. Louis, Pacific, Bel-Ridge: high school, living in, club)

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by drro

If it is mostly locals committing these violent crimes I wonder what their motivation would be? Does it have to do with tension building up because of the events in Ferguson?

St. Louis, the major city and not just East St. Louis, a completely separate city, has had crime problems for decades. Ferguson has by no means helped anything, but it isn't like everything was great until last August.

Why don't they close the bridges to East St. Louis at night when all the hard working, law abiding citizens are sleeping?

There are 4 bridges that allow car traffic into the downtown area around St. Louis, 3 of which have multiple major interstate access going across them. St. Louis has absolutely zero authority to close the bridges at night just because they might want to, and you better believe that Illinois, the other state the bridges connect to, would move to quickly squash such an attempt.

The city of St. Louis has had enough crime this year to beat out Detroit when it comes to murders. There's only about 27,000 people in the city of East St. Louis, versus the 318,000 in St. Louis proper. Any crime they're committing is a drop in the bucket in comparison to the city of St. Louis' own residents. Let's also not forget that there are another 673,000 people in the Illinois suburbs of St. Louis that rely on those bridges, in addition to the others in the metro, that have zero to do with East St. Louis. The Illinois suburbs make up 1/4 of the metro.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

What you are ignoring or perhaps are simply not aware of not being from St. Louis is that my post was very specific to an area of south St. Louis that is home to a very large number of Bosnians and has been for the past 20 years or so since Bosnian refugees were resettled in that part of St. Louis city. It is fairly well documented that many of the Bosnians have been leaving that part of the city for the county (suburbs) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which (according to them) is crime. So when I wrote Bosnians are tired of the crime - I was specifically discussing circumstances as they exist right now in one specific area of St. Louis. I wasn't making any general statements about whites, blacks, white flight, or black flight, etc. You read way too much into one post.

All of us familiar with St. Louis know there has been black flight from north St. Louis, primarily to north St. Louis county. See Ferguson, Spanish Lake, etc. And the cycle continues. In fact, most of the population loss that is still continuing in St. Louis city is black flight from the city of St. Louis - presumably because of crime and poor schools.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention. However, I had to wonder what you were really meaning considering past encounters. I know there is a large Bosnian population in St. Louis. I brought certain things up for this reason. I felt like this was being made about only Bosnians having concerns about safety.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

I get what you are writing.

There hasn't been a major demographic shift in St. Louis like other cities. The city is still half and half basically. I'm meeting a lot of transplants from Chicago and the southeast who are setting up home in the city because they like the city and what it has to offer. Some are boomerang St. Louisans others just end up here for what ever reason. The city is still leaking population because of the availability of section 8 opportunities in the suburbs, people grow into a family and want the suburbs and other reasons. New people move in old people move out. We are beginning to see new people move in but it hasn't off set the number of people moving out. I would hate to see the city have the same type of mindset it had 20 years ago about race and be so provincial. I like the changes I see in the demographics. I hope we will continue to see young people move here and enjoy the city and we all can live together. Immigration is what is saving a lot of cities along with areas geared towards dinks and gays.

High crime ranking is nothing new to St. Louis. I don't have the answers as to what can change it. Regardless of what reason we give for the rankings, we have to continue to fight. What I hear and read is far worse than what I experience as a resident.

The Bosnian population could be spreading into south county for safety issues. Why would they want to stay in a neighborhood that doesn't work for them.

It's unfair to say that all whites who leave the city do so for race reasons.

I didn't know there were people from the southeast moving to St. Louis. I would have never guessed. I always thought of it as people from St. Louis and Chicago going to Atlanta.

I won't lie, immigration is one part of what's keeping many cities from losing even more people, and in some cases, keeping Catholic parishes from closing down.

People leave for safety reasons, no matter what race/ethnicity they are. I just don't want this to turn racially charged.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Maybe I wasn't paying attention. However, I had to wonder what you were really meaning considering past encounters. I know there is a large Bosnian population in St. Louis. I brought certain things up for this reason. I felt like this was being made about only Bosnians having concerns about safety.

No.

[MUTGR]

Carjacking suspects taken into custody downtown | KMOV.com St. Louis

Broad daylight on a Sunday afternoon, you've got cops chasing a stolen car with two suspects, car crashes and the suspects flee, one carrying a big shot gun. The news I saw interviewed some tourists in from out of town who saw the whole thing right in front of their hotel, including one suspect running to and fro with said big shotgun.

Reminds me of this scene from Deadwood in which Al Swearengen welcomes some new comers to town:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y07h4mR2zFE

"Welcome to f****** Deadwood!"

[aliasfinn]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

Carjacking suspects taken into custody downtown | KMOV.com St. Louis

Broad daylight on a Sunday afternoon, you've got cops chasing a stolen car with two suspects, car crashes and the suspects flee, one carrying a big shot gun. The news I saw interviewed some tourists in from out of town who saw the whole thing right in front of their hotel, including one suspect running to and fro with said big shotgun.

Reminds me of this scene from Deadwood in which Al Swearengen welcomes some new comers to town:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y07h4mR2zFE

"Welcome to f****** Deadwood!"

I bet he was hard to spot, just blended in with the rest of the guys running around down there with shotguns.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I didn't know there were people from the southeast moving to St. Louis. I would have never guessed. I always thought of it as people from St. Louis and Chicago going to Atlanta...

I've noticed that ever since moving back last year. Chicago seemed to attract more people from other parts of the Midwest like Iowa, Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. There seems to be major depopulation of Chicago Blacks going to Atlanta, Iowa and other places.

St. Louis otoh seems to attract more people from the southeast and Chicago. It doesn't seem to be leaking Blacks like Detroit and Chicago when looking at city stats maintaining and the growth in North County by percentage. The Black presence has increased and is spreading out more now than it was 30 years ago. I don't see an increase in the professional class of blacks but there does seem to be a draw for working and middle class because of the quality of life in the region.

When you get into St. Louis county we tend to see more people who grew up in the metro. The city seems to have a different energy now.

I don't think the great southern exodus is as great as it once was in the 90's and early 00's. Some of that can be attributed to cities like Atlanta no longer has economical advantage (cost of living and quality of life) and the growth has slowed.

If so many are leaving due to crime the metro would be loosing population and the city would be lucky to clear 225k next census.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

I've noticed that ever since moving back last year. Chicago seemed to attract more people from other parts of the Midwest like Iowa, Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. There seems to be major depopulation of Chicago Blacks going to Atlanta, Iowa and other places.

St. Louis otoh seems to attract more people from the southeast and Chicago. It doesn't seem to be leaking Blacks like Detroit and Chicago when looking at city stats maintaining and the growth in North County by percentage. The Black presence has increased and is spreading out more now than it was 30 years ago. I don't see an increase in the professional class of blacks but there does seem to be a draw for working and middle class because of the quality of life in the region.

When you get into St. Louis county we tend to see more people who grew up in the metro. The city seems to have a different energy now.

I don't think the great southern exodus is as great as it once was in the 90's and early 00's. Some of that can be attributed to cities like Atlanta no longer has economical advantage (cost of living and quality of life) and the growth has slowed.

If so many are leaving due to crime the metro would be loosing population and the city would be lucky to clear 225k next census.

I know there are many Blacks from Chicago moving to Atlanta and to Iowa. What is interesting is the way such migrations are working. Atlanta is receiving alot of professional Blacks from Chicago. Iowa is getting alot of poor Blacks from Chicago.

St. Louis metropolitan area isn't leaking Blacks. What I meant is that many middle class Blacks have left St. Louis city and have gone to areas in the suburbs.

Currently, I don't see as many Blacks trying to move to Atlanta as in the past. Now I hear Texas is becoming bigger draw for Blacks. Right now, the state of Georgia has one of the highest(possibly the highest) unemployment rates in the nation. Atlanta's economy isn't as strong as it used to be. The last time I checked(which was around November or December), Georgia's unemployment rate was actually higher than Michigan's.

And it's interesting that you mention Iowa. Iowa currently has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation. Iowa also has good schools and a low crime rate and a lower cost of living.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I know there are many Blacks from Chicago moving to Atlanta and to Iowa. What is interesting is the way such migrations are working. Atlanta is receiving alot of professional Blacks from Chicago. Iowa is getting alot of poor Blacks from Chicago.

St. Louis metropolitan area isn't leaking Blacks. What I meant is that many middle class Blacks have left St. Louis city and have gone to areas in the suburbs.

Currently, I don't see as many Blacks trying to move to Atlanta as in the past. Now I hear Texas is becoming bigger draw for Blacks. Right now, the state of Georgia has one of the highest(possibly the highest) unemployment rates in the nation. Atlanta's economy isn't as strong as it used to be. The last time I checked(which was around November or December), Georgia's unemployment rate was actually higher than Michigan's.

And it's interesting that you mention Iowa. Iowa currently has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation. Iowa also has good schools and a low crime rate and a lower cost of living.

From what I've heard about Iowa is poor Blacks find it easier to be upwardly mobile. I've heard the same for Minnesota. The ones who don't want upward mobility tend to enjoy access to better social services.

Chicago doesn't have too many opportunities for Black families to live and thrive in an integrated upscale environment. That's why so many are going to Atlanta and now Texas.

I agree that much of the Black middle class in St. Louis city has moved to the suburbs. That may be partly fueled by crime but schools along with better housing options and an environment more conducive to raising a family.

I am seeing single Blacks buying and renting condos and apartments in areas of the city that are coming back. Most are youngish under 30 types who like urban living. The same demographic of Whites wanting to live in the city. Like I wrote before there seems to be a balancing act with the stats. Most cities gentrification process decrease the Black population.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by drro

Wow, that seems like a peaceful, friendly city . What is the reason for all this violence?

What do people people from St. Louis think about East St. Louis? Has East St. Louis inspired some of the violent crime in St. Louis?

East St. Louis has a population of 27,000 and had 24 murders last year:

East St. Louis kicks off 40 days of non-violence | Metro-east news | News Democrat

The City of St. Louis has a population of 318,000 and had 158 murders last year.

St. Louis County has a population of just under 1,000,000 and had 24 murders last year.