NBA or MLS? (Kansas City, St. Louis, Center: layoffs, tenants, schools)

[Azalea City Man]

I really wish there was an NBA team here. Love basketball. I'm not a baseball fan. Rams are cool, but only one game a week.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

Ya. I think the closest NBA teams are Chicago and Memphis. St. Louis had NBA until the 60s. They had pretty good attendance, but they moved to Atlanta shortly after the Blues came into town. I'd rather have the Blues, but it would be nice to have an NBA team as well. I see an MLS team as more likely.

[storey13]

MLS would be really nice in St. Louis. I think it would most likely do well there.

[jojojohnson76]

Yeah I'm no fan of soccer, but I would still like to see an MLS team in STL.

But I would definitely rather have an NBA team. I would definitely hit a few games every year.

[Sleeping in Skyscrapers]

Originally Posted by Canes2006Champs

The MLS is looking to expand and Saint Louis is a market they are interested in, along with Cleveland. NBA, I dont know. It would be cool to see a team there though. We could call them the "Saint Louis Spirits"

Thats funny you mention that because St. Louis actually had a professional basketball team called the Spirits. See Spirits of St. Louis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Personally I would strongely prefer an NBA team - and while were at it - lets bring back the Sprits name for the NBA team - they can "fly" like spirits! Sure baseball is #1 in STL - but I know for sure there a ton of basketball fans here! Especially in the metro - IL area - which is often not taken into account.

I'm very indifferent to MLS - I certainly don't hate it but the game never interested me (although I do like that it has no commercials on TV) And actually - I have zero Europe envy - soccer or "football" as they call it is primarily a European game. So many Americans like soccer I believe because they believe it is somehow above American sports and on some sort of international level - I say who cares! Let the European countries (and S. America) have their own sport (soccer/football) and we can have ours (basketball, the real football, baseball, hockey, etc.) They look down at our sports - so why should I pretend to be impressed by theirs?

[Fishtacos]

This one isn't too complicated. MLS average ticket price is under $20, and game schedule is 30 regular season games.

NBA is 82 game schedule and average ticket price is almost $52. Having this at same time as 82 game hockey schedule where average hockey ticket price last year was $43, it is a hard sell to say St. Louis can support NBA and NHL at same time.

MLS is summer season, and Cardinals aren't a competitor to them. Cardinals have a National following and will draw their 3 million annually from all over.

It'd be nice to have both, but MLS isn't a tough sell in the St. Louis market and should get a team and be successful. Plus, it is a big challenge to get coporate suite sales for both NHL and NBA at same venue at same time. Those are very expensive and tough to fill.

[Sleeping in Skyscrapers]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

An MLS Franchise would do well. An NBA team would have a tougher time. It'd be great to have both, but that would be really stretching it. No market the size of STL has all major sports teams.(MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL) An MLS franchise would do just fine.

Fish tacos - Just wanted to let you know you are simply wrong. You should do more research before making disasterous claims such as this. In my opinion, you pessimism does a disservice to the many sports fans in St. Louis, especially fans of basketball and soccer.

In response to your comment, there are actually several cities/ metropolitan areas smaller than St. Louis that have all MLB, NBA, NFL, and NHL. Here is the data:

As St. Louisans know, we have only NHL, MLB, and NFL and our metro area = 2.8 M people

There are many cities/ metro areas much smaller than St. Louis (ex: Tampa, Pittsburg, Cleveland, etc.) that also only have NHL, MLB, and NFL. Kansas City has only 1.8 M people yet it has MLB, NFL, and MLS

In addition, Denver is a very good example as it has NHL, MLS, MLB, NFL, and NBA yet its metro area is only 2.4 M people - thats nearly half a million people less than St. Louis

Finally, there are several other metro areas with populations comparable to Greater St. Louis that have more pro sports teams. For example, Minneapolis has NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL with only 300 K more people than St. Louis.

I could go on - but you get the point. I'm not sure why you are so negative about NBA and so positive about MLS - I can only assume you are anti-basketball.

In conclusion, sure, St. Louis is on the small size for having the "big 5" (NHL, NBA, NFL, MLB, and MLS) but this is not unheard of. As St. Louis and especially downtown continues to grow and prosper and as St. Louis continues its tradition of being a very strong sports town, the NBA and MLS should seriously begin looking at our city - as within the next 5-10 years the population should be able to sustain such teams. We can all hope that the 2009 All Star game will be a strong introduction of the city to sports investors.

I am unapologetic in saying I believe its important to point out these facts and to have an optomistic attitude for this great city.

Thanks for your time

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in Skyscrapers

Fish tacos - Just wanted to let you know you are simply wrong. You should do more research before making disasterous claims such as this. In my opinion, you pessimism does a disservice to the many sports fans in St. Louis, especially fans of basketball and soccer.

In response to your comment, there are actually several cities/ metropolitan areas smaller than St. Louis that have all MLB, NBA, NFL, and NHL. Here is the data:

As St. Louisans know, we have only NHL, MLB, and NFL and our metro area = 2.8 M people

There are many cities/ metro areas much smaller than St. Louis (ex: Tampa, Pittsburg, Cleveland, etc.) that also only have NHL, MLB, and NFL. Kansas City has only 1.8 M people yet it has MLB, NFL, and MLS

In addition, Denver is a very good example as it has NHL, MLS, MLB, NFL, and NBA yet its metro area is only 2.4 M people - thats nearly half a million people less than St. Louis

Finally, there are several other metro areas with populations comparable to Greater St. Louis that have more pro sports teams. For example, Minneapolis has NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL with only 300 K more people than St. Louis.

I could go on - but you get the point. I'm not sure why you are so negative about NBA and so positive about MLS - I can only assume you are anti-basketball.

In conclusion, sure, St. Louis is on the small size for having the "big 5" (NHL, NBA, NFL, MLB, and MLS) but this is not unheard of. As St. Louis and especially downtown continues to grow and prosper and as St. Louis continues its tradition of being a very strong sports town, the NBA and MLS should seriously begin looking at our city - as within the next 5-10 years the population should be able to sustain such teams. We can all hope that the 2009 All Star game will be a strong introduction of the city to sports investors.

I am unapologetic in saying I believe its important to point out these facts and to have an optomistic attitude for this great city.

Thanks for your time

1) My attitude is just fine thanks. If you do perhaps a little research, you'd see that I said I'd like to have both an NBA and an MLS team in St. Louis.

2) If you had done a little research you'd know that many experts in the field believe St. Louis would have a tough time making it in all of the sports. Current Blues Owner Dave Checketts said so as recently as the past few months that no he didn't think an NBA and NHL team would survive in St. Louis. I also never said it couldn't work, but I did say it would be challening to make it work. That's called objectivity, not pessimism.

3) Denver-Aurora-Boulder population is greater than St. Louis. And, the population of Minneapolis-St. Paul is larger in difference than your statistics. BTW to help you out, the Minnesota Wild play in St. Paul MN, not Minneapolis. Update your statistics from 2000. Denver metro area has grown by 30% and Twin Cities by a little under 20%. ...while St. Louis has only shown slight single digit gains. Denver also has the entire state as a fan base, plus neighboring states, as opposed to the more limited fan base a brand new franchise would have in St. Louis by geographic comparison.

I've said in all of my posts thus far that an MLS team would do very well in St. Louis. That one will happen. Unfortunately, it looks like Philadelphia's stadium and ownership is getting more into place and St. Louis will have to wait til after 2009, (hopefully not, but very possibly) to get a team, but eventually there definitely will be an MLS team in St. Louis. 100%.

Who is going to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for those luxury suites 82 nights per year at Scottrade Center, not counting the other events that go on there?

NBA ticket average $52. NHL ticket average $43 Family of four. Now throw in parking, concessions, gas, and the corporations above have to help buy those pricey seats too.

The Blues are not currently selling their more expensive lower bowl seats in high numbers. It's taking a lot of work to sell the corporate world to buy more of them. Then say, ok, well we need you another 42 nights too for hoops.

It's challenging. I don't think it is impossible. But it wouldn't be easy. That's for sure.

Every one of your examples of smaller metros have had serious problems supporting one or more of their 3 professional teams.

[ShadowCaver]

Fishtacos - you have earned much respect w. your post; very nicely said, and in a non-badgering manner.
Some more points coming your way when I'm out of the penalty box...

[LancasterNative]

I agree totally that a city as great as St. Louis, with its awesome fan base, deserves as many teams as it wants (i.e. that the market will support). I don't see any reason why STL can't be a four-sport metro.

That said, my enthusiastic support will remain solely for the Cardinals and Rams. Baseball and football are the games I grew up watching, and still love. I even remember the "Football Cardinals" and was a fan of them prior to their departure for Aridzona.

I just can't work up much excitement at all about soccer or basketball...